Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:06:39 +0800, Jim Morcombe
<jmorcombe.DeleteThis@westnet.com.au> wrote:

>I have been selling a few of my "Electric Blues" to a LFS for very
>little money. I tried another today and he looked at my fish and said
>they weren't electric blues. He noticed there were "dots" on the side
>of some and said they must be a hybrid with a peacock. He then showed
>me his Electric Blue and showed me a reference book with a picture of a
>Sciaenochromis fryeri.
>
>Researching the net, mine are definitely Scianochromis ahli - both the
>male and the female match pictures on the web exactly. However, how do
>I explain the "spots" on some of the juveniles.
>
>Does anyone have any knowledge of Sciaenochromis Ahlis?

S. ahli and S. fryeri are the same fish. Ahli was the original name.

I bred hundreds from wild stock about 30 years ago supplying shops. I
don't remember black dots on them. They get a bit less colourful when
breeding from tank bred stock and may show marks but I never noticed.
They are quite distinct from peacocks - much slimmer for starters.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri 

RedForeman wrote:
> On Dec 21, 4:06 am, Jim Morcombe <jmorco....DeleteThis@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>>I have been selling a few of my "Electric Blues" to a LFS for very
>>little money. I tried another today and he looked at my fish and said
>>they weren't electric blues. He noticed there were "dots" on the side
>>of some and said they must be a hybrid with a peacock. He then showed
>>me his Electric Blue and showed me a reference book with a picture of a
>>Sciaenochromis fryeri.
>>
>>Researching the net, mine are definitely Scianochromis ahli - both the
>>male and the female match pictures on the web exactly. However, how do
>>I explain the "spots" on some of the juveniles.
>
>
> Simple, he's probably just un-educated to the breed. but first, I have
> 1 question... are there ANY other breeders in that tank? if so, he
> 'might' be right... if you ONLY have that type of fish, then it's
> purely genetics. Secondarily, the guy at the LFS could have been a
> dunce and just not known, or only knew of some... anything is possible
> there....
>
>
>>Does anyone have any knowledge of Sciaenochromis Ahlis?
>
>
> www.cichlidforum.com
> www.cichlids.com
> www.malawicichlids.com
>
> are all good sites for reference.... although, when fish are bought and
> bred, and sold, and bought, and etc... the genetics become blended
> between some species... and identification becomes EVEN harder...
>
> Good Luck though...
>
> RedForeman
>
The only other breeders are bristlenose catfishes - If I do manage to
come up with a hybrid bristlenose/electric blue I think I will make a
fortune. Anyone interseted in buying an Electric Bristlenose?
 >> Stay informed about: Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri 

Steve Wolstenholme wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:06:39 +0800, Jim Morcombe
> <jmorcombe DeleteThis @westnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>I have been selling a few of my "Electric Blues" to a LFS for very
>>little money. I tried another today and he looked at my fish and said
>>they weren't electric blues. He noticed there were "dots" on the side
>>of some and said they must be a hybrid with a peacock. He then showed
>>me his Electric Blue and showed me a reference book with a picture of a
>>Sciaenochromis fryeri.
>>
>>Researching the net, mine are definitely Scianochromis ahli - both the
>>male and the female match pictures on the web exactly. However, how do
>>I explain the "spots" on some of the juveniles.
>>
>>Does anyone have any knowledge of Sciaenochromis Ahlis?
>
>
> S. ahli and S. fryeri are the same fish. Ahli was the original name.
>
> I bred hundreds from wild stock about 30 years ago supplying shops. I
> don't remember black dots on them. They get a bit less colourful when
> breeding from tank bred stock and may show marks but I never noticed.
> They are quite distinct from peacocks - much slimmer for starters.
>
> Steve
>
Actually, S. Ahli and S.Fryeri are very different fish. In the US, the
wrong fish was imported and sold as Ahli. Later the mistake was
corrected. Later, there was a name change within the species.

As you were in the industry a long time ago, the fish you bred may have
been S. Fryeri but were sold as S. Ahli. In this case, they would have
had a "roman nose" and have had a slightly darker blue.

The S. Fryeri is shaped a little more like a peacock and is lighter in
colour.

On this issue, you will have to go to hard copy books for identification
- recent books because of the change in names. The information
available on the internet is contradictory and experts state opposite
poitions with equal levels of certainty.
 >> Stay informed about: Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri 

On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:53:36 +0800, Jim Morcombe
<jmorcombe.RemoveThis@westnet.com.au> wrote:

>Actually, S. Ahli and S.Fryeri are very different fish. In the US, the
>wrong fish was imported and sold as Ahli. Later the mistake was
>corrected. Later, there was a name change within the species.
>

I think they are different varieties of the same species from very
different locations. It's difficult to justify their classification as
different species.

>As you were in the industry a long time ago, the fish you bred may have
>been S. Fryeri but were sold as S. Ahli. In this case, they would have
>had a "roman nose" and have had a slightly darker blue.
>

No they were definitely the ahli type. I am in the UK and the fish
were shipped directly from Tanzania. Three were DOA and we sent them
to Ethelwyn Trewavas for ID. She confirmed that they were the same as
the fish she named Haplochromis ahli in 1935.

>The S. Fryeri is shaped a little more like a peacock and is lighter in
>colour.
>

If anything the fryeri type is a bit slimmer. The less colourful
Sciaenochromis psammophilus is often confused with fryeri.

>On this issue, you will have to go to hard copy books for identification
>- recent books because of the change in names. The information
>available on the internet is contradictory and experts state opposite
>poitions with equal levels of certainty.

I'm using the original descriptions. Ethelwyn Trewavas died a long
time ago but I still have her letter about our ahli.
 >> Stay informed about: Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri 

Steve Wolstenholme wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:06:39 +0800, Jim Morcombe
> <jmorcombe DeleteThis @westnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>I have been selling a few of my "Electric Blues" to a LFS for very
>>little money. I tried another today and he looked at my fish and said
>>they weren't electric blues. He noticed there were "dots" on the side
>>of some and said they must be a hybrid with a peacock. He then showed
>>me his Electric Blue and showed me a reference book with a picture of a
>>Sciaenochromis fryeri.
>>
>>Researching the net, mine are definitely Scianochromis ahli - both the
>>male and the female match pictures on the web exactly. However, how do
>>I explain the "spots" on some of the juveniles.
>>
>>Does anyone have any knowledge of Sciaenochromis Ahlis?
>
>
> S. ahli and S. fryeri are the same fish. Ahli was the original name.
>
> I bred hundreds from wild stock about 30 years ago supplying shops. I
> don't remember black dots on them. They get a bit less colourful when
> breeding from tank bred stock and may show marks but I never noticed.
> They are quite distinct from peacocks - much slimmer for starters.
>
> Steve
>

I have S.Ahli. Here is an article that classifies it as S.Fryeri. The
photo is identical to my fish.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/s_fryeri.php

Here is a diferent article that clasifies it as s.ahli. (The anal fin is
a little different in the picture)
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/s_ahli.php

Here is another article about s. fryeri - notice this is a different
fish and I agree with the identification. The author states that is used
to be classified as s.ahli but is now recognised as being s.fryeri.
http://malawicichlids.com/mw08098.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri 

"Steve Wolstenholme" <steve.DeleteThis@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c3cbp2hi3921u7pcnjsq2n7201iq76a0uh@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:06:39 +0800, Jim Morcombe
> <jmorcombe.DeleteThis@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>>I have been selling a few of my "Electric Blues" to a LFS for very
>>little money. I tried another today and he looked at my fish and said
>>they weren't electric blues. He noticed there were "dots" on the side
>>of some and said they must be a hybrid with a peacock. He then showed
>>me his Electric Blue and showed me a reference book with a picture of a
>>Sciaenochromis fryeri.
>>
>>Researching the net, mine are definitely Scianochromis ahli - both the
>>male and the female match pictures on the web exactly. However, how do
>>I explain the "spots" on some of the juveniles.
>>
>>Does anyone have any knowledge of Sciaenochromis Ahlis?
>
> S. ahli and S. fryeri are the same fish. Ahli was the original name.
>
> I bred hundreds from wild stock about 30 years ago supplying shops. I
> don't remember black dots on them. They get a bit less colourful when
> breeding from tank bred stock and may show marks but I never noticed.
> They are quite distinct from peacocks - much slimmer for starters.
>
> Steve
>

I have only been breeding lecky blues for about 9 years
but I have bred quantity of them and white knight melanistic variants
In my experience black marks are quite common and have never remained into
adult hood on my fish
I am however in Australia here so frok knows how good our stock is.
I was told they were icebergs when I got the starters of the colony
Have mixed maybe 6 or 7 other blood lines into them
fry have the occassional mark
ah well
Would be spewing to learn it was a fault in me bloodline but I have pumped
out thousands of them and never been pulled up
Only complimented W000000t:)
An easy way to tell lecky blues from blue coloured peacocks is to look for
the cones. Only peacocks have the cones (where 'auloncara' (sp?) comes from)
that they use to find prey
lecky blues have no cones
Oh how I would like to get some wild stock
that would be very nice
:)
Swarvegorilla
 >> Stay informed about: Electric blue - Sciaenochromis ahli vs Sciaenochromis fryeri