Dog Training

In article <jHaQk.3019$Jv2.2583@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
"S.Smith" <sasmith39 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote:

> Has anyone tried Don Sullivan's Dog Training? I have used PetSmart puppy
> classes and have tried BarkBusters. Both have been minimally effective. I
> have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old.

Find yourself an actual in-person dog trainer. www.dogpro.org

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"S.Smith" <sasmith39.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jHaQk.3019$Jv2.2583@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
I have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old. As a puppy, he has been
very
> ADD. He has calmed down a fair amount the past few months. I saw Don
> Sullivan on TV and checked out his web site. It looks like it may work to
> change my puppy to being a normal member of the family.

What are you trying to train the puppy to do? What problems are you trying
to correct?

Most puppies are a little ADD. At 11 months, he's just getting over his
teenage period and would have been calming down - which you say is
happening.

Judy
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"Judy" <doubleq RemoveThis @cableracer.com> wrote in message
news:6ndp8tFj4oeiU1@mid.individual.net...
> "S.Smith" <sasmith39 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:jHaQk.3019$Jv2.2583@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> I have a mini Schnauzer that is now 11 mos. old. As a puppy, he has been
> very
>> ADD. He has calmed down a fair amount the past few months. I saw Don
>> Sullivan on TV and checked out his web site. It looks like it may work
>> to change my puppy to being a normal member of the family.
>
> What are you trying to train the puppy to do? What problems are you
> trying to correct?
>
> Most puppies are a little ADD. At 11 months, he's just getting over his
> teenage period and would have been calming down - which you say is
> happening.
>
> Judy

Petey tries to get out the front door, tugs and pulls on the leash...I have
4' and a 6' leashes. He jumps up on visitors and us as well. Barks at a
leaf as it falls from the tree, I guess thinking maybe it is a bird. He
has the run of a nice large well fenced backyard. What I want is a dog that
can live with us and takes a break sometime.
BarkBusters is one-on-one training, giving us the tools with voice and body
language (the trainer comes to the house). Petey really relates best to men
(trainer) and responds. When it is up to me that is a different story. I
have to do it all myself and I have some limitations in walking. The group
I first mentioned can be found at:
www.ThePerfectDog.com. They have a 30 return policy. BarkBusters is good
for the llife of the dog, regardless who the owner is. Petey is extremely
smart and I know with the proper training, he can be fine.
Petey's Mom
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"S.Smith" <sasmith39.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:DutQk.3198$Jv2.2073@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Petey tries to get out the front door, tugs and pulls on the leash...I
> have 4' and a 6' leashes. He jumps up on visitors and us as well. Barks
> at a leaf as it falls from the tree, I guess thinking maybe it is a bird.
> He has the run of a nice large well fenced backyard. What I want is a dog
> that can live with us and takes a break sometime.

He can be that. It doesn't sound to me like he is behaving like anything
other than a typical untrained dog. The simple answer to each of your
problems is "don't let him do that". Now, barking at the leaf is going to
be difficult to break him of, although age and experience on his part will
help. You did get a reactive breed. My dogs spend much of their time on
the back of the couch watching the world. Leaves don't set them off, nor
does any regular occurence like the mailman. A squirrel on the front porch
is going to be greeted by a deafening alarm. But birds are ignored.

> BarkBusters is one-on-one training, giving us the tools with voice and
> body language (the trainer comes to the house). Petey really relates best
> to men (trainer) and responds. When it is up to me that is a different
> story. I have to do it all myself and I have some limitations in walking.
> The group I first mentioned can be found at:
> www.ThePerfectDog.com. They have a 30 return policy. BarkBusters is good
> for the llife of the dog, regardless who the owner is. Petey is extremely
> smart and I know with the proper training, he can be fine.
> Petey's Mom

Petey *can* be the dog you want. Why don't you find a local training class
and take him there? What you are looking for is pretty basic. Saying he
relates best to men (although it may be true) doesn't help you. No one else
can train your dog and turn him loose in your household and your life and
have the training be effective. You have to do the training and then be
consistent. Training is not a one-time thing. It happens every day of the
dog's life.

I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters who are
guaranteeing the dog. It's not the dog who has to learn, it's YOU. And you
have a breed who will test your resolve regularly. I have two miniature
schnauzers. The male checks every single day to make sure that I am still
in charge. Because he's quite willing to take over any decisions that I
don't enforce.

I watched an 88 year old woman compete in agility with her miniature
schnauzer, who had been trained first in obedience. She was not
particularly mobile. I know another woman who competes in agility with her
miniature schnauzer and uses a walker. Your limitations in walking,
whatever they are, may be a challenge but they don't eliminate the
possibility of you having a well-behaved dog.

Find a local group - check with your local kennel club or shelter and ask
about classes. They will be cheaper and more effective than either of the
organizations you have mentioned.

Judy
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"Judy" <doubleq.TakeThisOut@cableracer.com> wrote in message
news:6ng50bFl9re6U1@mid.individual.net...
> "S.Smith" <sasmith39.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:DutQk.3198$Jv2.2073@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>> Petey tries to get out the front door, tugs and pulls on the leash...I
>> have 4' and a 6' leashes. He jumps up on visitors and us as well. Barks
>> at a leaf as it falls from the tree, I guess thinking maybe it is a bird.
>> He has the run of a nice large well fenced backyard. What I want is a dog
>> that can live with us and takes a break sometime.
>
> He can be that. It doesn't sound to me like he is behaving like anything
> other than a typical untrained dog. The simple answer to each of your
> problems is "don't let him do that". Now, barking at the leaf is going to
> be difficult to break him of, although age and experience on his part will
> help. You did get a reactive breed. My dogs spend much of their time on
> the back of the couch watching the world. Leaves don't set them off, nor
> does any regular occurence like the mailman. A squirrel on the front
> porch is going to be greeted by a deafening alarm. But birds are ignored.
>
>> BarkBusters is one-on-one training, giving us the tools with voice and
>> body language (the trainer comes to the house). Petey really relates
>> best to men (trainer) and responds. When it is up to me that is a
>> different story. I have to do it all myself and I have some limitations
>> in walking. The group I first mentioned can be found at:
>> www.ThePerfectDog.com. They have a 30 return policy. BarkBusters is
>> good for the llife of the dog, regardless who the owner is. Petey is
>> extremely smart and I know with the proper training, he can be fine.
>> Petey's Mom
>
> Petey *can* be the dog you want. Why don't you find a local training
> class and take him there? What you are looking for is pretty basic.
> Saying he relates best to men (although it may be true) doesn't help you.
> No one else can train your dog and turn him loose in your household and
> your life and have the training be effective. You have to do the training
> and then be consistent. Training is not a one-time thing. It happens
> every day of the dog's life.
>
> I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters who are
> guaranteeing the dog. It's not the dog who has to learn, it's YOU. And
> you have a breed who will test your resolve regularly. I have two
> miniature schnauzers. The male checks every single day to make sure that
> I am still in charge. Because he's quite willing to take over any
> decisions that I don't enforce.
>
> I watched an 88 year old woman compete in agility with her miniature
> schnauzer, who had been trained first in obedience. She was not
> particularly mobile. I know another woman who competes in agility with
> her miniature schnauzer and uses a walker. Your limitations in walking,
> whatever they are, may be a challenge but they don't eliminate the
> possibility of you having a well-behaved dog.
>
> Find a local group - check with your local kennel club or shelter and ask
> about classes. They will be cheaper and more effective than either of the
> organizations you have mentioned.
>
> Judy

Judy,

Thanks for all your good comments. I did the training class for puppies at
PetSmart and it was rough for two reasons - his ADD and there was only one
other puppy in the class. All Petey wanted to do was mess with the other
puppy. I went every Monday at 1pm for 8 weeks...did not miss one day. I
had little to nothing to show for the efforts. Cost was $108. Petey really
is a sweet dog and all I want for him is to be all he can be. I have had
other dogs (adults), but he is the first puppy I have had to raise.
Peteys Mom
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"Judy" <doubleq.TakeThisOut@cableracer.com> said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

> I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters
> who are guaranteeing the dog.

I had one client who started Grrring at her dog, apparently a
Bark Busters technique. This dog had been coming here for a
while and was a very nice GR. I told my client that Grrring was
stupid and explained why. I lost the client (and I still miss
the dog) but I understand that there was a bite at home.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"S.Smith" <sasmith39 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lhHQk.3294$Jv2.382@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Thanks for all your good comments. I did the training class for puppies
> at PetSmart and it was rough for two reasons - his ADD and there was only
> one other puppy in the class.

Let me add another reason. It was a PetSmart class.

Find a class run by someone who actually knows how to train dogs, not by
some minimum wage employee who probably doesn't know any more about it than
the person working the cash register at your local supermarket.

I don't see anything in your description of his behavior that would indicate
that he has ADD - if a dog actually can. And while it's nice to have other
dogs in the class to socialize him, it doesn't change the training itself.

Contact your local kennel club and ask them about classes.

> I went every Monday at 1pm for 8 weeks...did not miss one day. I had
> little to nothing to show for the efforts.

How much work did you do at home? Every day, every hour. What happens in
the class is YOUR training. What happens all the other hours of the week is
your puppy's training. It helps that you showed up at class. It
demonstrates that you were sincere in your attempt. Now it needs to be at a
class where the instructor is actually capable of teaching you to train your
dog. And then you have to do all the rest of the work all the rest of the
week.

>I have had other dogs (adults), but he is the first puppy I have had to
>raise.

I think this is one of the causes of your problem. Not that you *can't* do
it, but you don't seem to have the concept of the amount of work it takes to
properly train a puppy. They are learning all the time. Especially when
you don't think you are teaching them anything.

An adult dog comes with basic behavior that you can decide for or against
before you bring them into your household. They also don't have all those
puppy traits and the teenaged traits that you've probably never seen in a
dog before.

I sincerely doubt that your dog has ADD. Whoever told you that doesn't have
a clue what it would really mean. You have an untrained puppy who is
quickly growing into an untrained dog. You are looking for someone else to
come in and train your dog and you seem to think that magically it will then
be a trained dog. It doesn't happen that way. And you really didn't choose
a breed that is going to make it easy for you to do little or nothing.

Miniature schnauzers are very smart dogs. And they are also very eager to
please. They are also usually easily motivated by either food or toys.
This combination makes them relatively easy to train but also means that
they don't train themselves. And that it will be a lifetime effort for you.
this doesn't mean that you have to spend hours every day training for the
life of the dog. But it does mean that a one-time training period is not
going to solve your problems forever.

My two schnauzers are reasonably well-behaved. This didn't happen overnight
or without a great deal of effort. And we train and reinforce training
every single day. "No, you cannot continue to bark at that squirrel. Yes,
you must sit quietly while I open the door for the UPS man. Yes, you must
sit on the rug by the door until I get there to wipe your feet. No, you
cannot go over and investigate the interesting smells in the neighbor's yard
and yes, you must come to me right now when I say to." Every single day.

I have no patience for people who tell me that my schnauzers must be some
sort of strange deviations in the breed because *theirs* could never let
someone come into the house and not bark hysterically at them. It's
training and there are no short-cuts.

Judy
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"Judy" <doubleq RemoveThis @cableracer.com> wrote in message
news:6ngv1rFlib77U1@mid.individual.net...
> "S.Smith" <sasmith39 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:lhHQk.3294$Jv2.382@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>> Thanks for all your good comments. I did the training class for puppies
>> at PetSmart and it was rough for two reasons - his ADD and there was only
>> one other puppy in the class.
>
> Let me add another reason. It was a PetSmart class.
>
> Find a class run by someone who actually knows how to train dogs, not by
> some minimum wage employee who probably doesn't know any more about it
> than the person working the cash register at your local supermarket.
>
> I don't see anything in your description of his behavior that would
> indicate that he has ADD - if a dog actually can. And while it's nice to
> have other dogs in the class to socialize him, it doesn't change the
> training itself.
>
> Contact your local kennel club and ask them about classes.
>
>> I went every Monday at 1pm for 8 weeks...did not miss one day. I had
>> little to nothing to show for the efforts.
>
> How much work did you do at home? Every day, every hour. What happens in
> the class is YOUR training. What happens all the other hours of the week
> is your puppy's training. It helps that you showed up at class. It
> demonstrates that you were sincere in your attempt. Now it needs to be at
> a class where the instructor is actually capable of teaching you to train
> your dog. And then you have to do all the rest of the work all the rest
> of the week.
>
>>I have had other dogs (adults), but he is the first puppy I have had to
>>raise.
>
> I think this is one of the causes of your problem. Not that you *can't*
> do it, but you don't seem to have the concept of the amount of work it
> takes to properly train a puppy. They are learning all the time.
> Especially when you don't think you are teaching them anything.
>
> An adult dog comes with basic behavior that you can decide for or against
> before you bring them into your household. They also don't have all those
> puppy traits and the teenaged traits that you've probably never seen in a
> dog before.
>
> I sincerely doubt that your dog has ADD. Whoever told you that doesn't
> have a clue what it would really mean. You have an untrained puppy who is
> quickly growing into an untrained dog. You are looking for someone else
> to come in and train your dog and you seem to think that magically it will
> then be a trained dog. It doesn't happen that way. And you really didn't
> choose a breed that is going to make it easy for you to do little or
> nothing.
>
> Miniature schnauzers are very smart dogs. And they are also very eager to
> please. They are also usually easily motivated by either food or toys.
> This combination makes them relatively easy to train but also means that
> they don't train themselves. And that it will be a lifetime effort for
> you. this doesn't mean that you have to spend hours every day training for
> the life of the dog. But it does mean that a one-time training period is
> not going to solve your problems forever.
>
> My two schnauzers are reasonably well-behaved. This didn't happen
> overnight or without a great deal of effort. And we train and reinforce
> training every single day. "No, you cannot continue to bark at that
> squirrel. Yes, you must sit quietly while I open the door for the UPS
> man. Yes, you must sit on the rug by the door until I get there to wipe
> your feet. No, you cannot go over and investigate the interesting smells
> in the neighbor's yard and yes, you must come to me right now when I say
> to." Every single day.
>
> I have no patience for people who tell me that my schnauzers must be some
> sort of strange deviations in the breed because *theirs* could never let
> someone come into the house and not bark hysterically at them. It's
> training and there are no short-cuts.
>
> Judy

Judy,
You are 100% correct on all points. When you suggested a kennel club, what
did you mean? Are there club type groups for certain breeds? As you can
tell, I am very new at all of this and I appreciate the time you have taken
to explain all of this to me. The first vet that saw him (not my vet) at 8
weeks said he was ADD. The only time he was calm was when he was sleeping
or eating. He has improved much, especially after being neutered. My vet
think he is just a very happy puppy and in time things will improve. I have
been with this vet for 20 years and respect his opinion. Petey is very
smart (that is why I wanted a schnauzer) and has learned many words. He is
so much smarter than I am.
Thank you for all your input.
Petey's Mom
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"S.Smith" <sasmith39 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:TokRk.175$U5.65@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>When you suggested a kennel club, what did you mean? Are there club type
>groups for certain breeds?

There are groups for certain breeds. However, what you need is not breed
specific. Since you haven't said otherwise, I'm going to assume (which can
be dangerous) that you are in the US or Canada or some similar country that
has a national kennel club.

These national clubs have local clubs. You can locate them through the
national club's website. For instance, in the US you would start at
www.akc.org and search for local clubs. I checked the listing under "clubs
with training programs" and found it incomplete based on my own knowledge.
I suggest that you check under the other possible searches - for
performance, obedience, even conformation. Once you have located an
affiliate club in your area, you can contact them either by phone or by
e-mail and ask what they have available - or if they have any suggestions
for you locally.

There are also independent trainers. These can vary widely (not that the
ones in the clubs don't) but there are some really good ones out there.
What you need is a pretty basic class.

I'd also suggest calling your local animal shelter and asking about training
classes. Many shelters sponsor classes because a well-behaved dog is less
likely to need their shelter services.

>The first vet that saw him (not my vet) at 8 weeks said he was ADD.

I don't believe that any vet could see a puppy for the lenfth of time a
typical puppy eval takes and diagnose ADD. And certainly not at 8 weeks -
when you wouldn't have even had much history to provide.

>The only time he was calm was when he was sleeping or eating.

Sounds like a typical eight week old puppy. They eat, sleep and play.
That's what they do. It's their job, while they are awake, to explore this
grand new world.

>My vet think he is just a very happy puppy and in time things will improve.

I think that's almost certainly true. But training will make it easier now
and later.

Have you asked this vet for suggestions for training classes? Not all vets
are aware or knowledgeable enough to make good recommendations but it's not
a bad place to ask.

Good luck.

Judy
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"Rocky" <3dogs DeleteThis @rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri9B4E7BBCF9AA8australianshepherdca@rocky-dog.com...
> "Judy" <doubleq DeleteThis @cableracer.com> said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
>
>> I see nothing but rip-off in something like Bark Busters
>> who are guaranteeing the dog.
>
> I had one client who started Grrring at her dog, apparently a
> Bark Busters technique. This dog had been coming here for a
> while and was a very nice GR. I told my client that Grrring was
> stupid and explained why. I lost the client (and I still miss
> the dog) but I understand that there was a bite at home.
>
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

I was also taught to GRRR sound from BarkBusters. I don't think it was very
effective. They think it works and maybe in some instances it does, but not
in my case. They sell alot of things on top of the $500 price tag. We were
on the verge of giving Petey away and that was killing me. I felt if it
worked and I was able to keep Petey, the price was fine. In retrospect, he
has improved some and I will take the advice given by Judy to find a group
that can help us.
Petey's Mom
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

"Judy" <doubleq.DeleteThis@cableracer.com> wrote in message
news:6nm3r5Fmb42cU1@mid.individual.net...
> "S.Smith" <sasmith39.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:TokRk.175$U5.65@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>>When you suggested a kennel club, what did you mean? Are there club type
>>groups for certain breeds?
>
> There are groups for certain breeds. However, what you need is not breed
> specific. Since you haven't said otherwise, I'm going to assume (which
> can be dangerous) that you are in the US or Canada or some similar country
> that has a national kennel club.
>
> These national clubs have local clubs. You can locate them through the
> national club's website. For instance, in the US you would start at
> www.akc.org and search for local clubs. I checked the listing under
> "clubs with training programs" and found it incomplete based on my own
> knowledge. I suggest that you check under the other possible searches -
> for performance, obedience, even conformation. Once you have located an
> affiliate club in your area, you can contact them either by phone or by
> e-mail and ask what they have available - or if they have any suggestions
> for you locally.
>
> There are also independent trainers. These can vary widely (not that the
> ones in the clubs don't) but there are some really good ones out there.
> What you need is a pretty basic class.
>
> I'd also suggest calling your local animal shelter and asking about
> training classes. Many shelters sponsor classes because a well-behaved
> dog is less likely to need their shelter services.
>
>>The first vet that saw him (not my vet) at 8 weeks said he was ADD.
>
> I don't believe that any vet could see a puppy for the lenfth of time a
> typical puppy eval takes and diagnose ADD. And certainly not at 8 weeks -
> when you wouldn't have even had much history to provide.
>
>>The only time he was calm was when he was sleeping or eating.
>
> Sounds like a typical eight week old puppy. They eat, sleep and play.
> That's what they do. It's their job, while they are awake, to explore
> this grand new world.
>
>>My vet think he is just a very happy puppy and in time things will
>>improve.
>
> I think that's almost certainly true. But training will make it easier
> now and later.
>
> Have you asked this vet for suggestions for training classes? Not all
> vets are aware or knowledgeable enough to make good recommendations but
> it's not a bad place to ask.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Judy

Judy,
Thanks again for all your information. We live just north of Dallas. I
will check with the akc link you gave me and try to find a group where I can
be trained. I know it is I who has the problem. Something else, I have to
do it all myself. There is another person here, but is of little to no
help. I am the one with the patience.
Thanks,
Petey's Mom
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training 

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

"S.Smith" <sasmith39.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:JP1Sk.688$U5.438@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Judy" <doubleq.TakeThisOut@cableracer.com> wrote in message
> news:6nm3r5Fmb42cU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "S.Smith" <sasmith39.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:TokRk.175$U5.65@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>>>When you suggested a kennel club, what did you mean? Are there club type
>>>groups for certain breeds?
>>
>> There are groups for certain breeds. However, what you need is not breed
>> specific. Since you haven't said otherwise, I'm going to assume (which
>> can be dangerous) that you are in the US or Canada or some similar
>> country that has a national kennel club.
>>
>> These national clubs have local clubs. You can locate them through the
>> national club's website. For instance, in the US you would start at
>> www.akc.org and search for local clubs. I checked the listing under
>> "clubs with training programs" and found it incomplete based on my own
>> knowledge. I suggest that you check under the other possible searches -
>> for performance, obedience, even conformation. Once you have located an
>> affiliate club in your area, you can contact them either by phone or by
>> e-mail and ask what they have available - or if they have any suggestions
>> for you locally.
>>
>> There are also independent trainers. These can vary widely (not that the
>> ones in the clubs don't) but there are some really good ones out there.
>> What you need is a pretty basic class.
>>
>> I'd also suggest calling your local animal shelter and asking about
>> training classes. Many shelters sponsor classes because a well-behaved
>> dog is less likely to need their shelter services.
>>
>>>The first vet that saw him (not my vet) at 8 weeks said he was ADD.
>>
>> I don't believe that any vet could see a puppy for the lenfth of time a
>> typical puppy eval takes and diagnose ADD. And certainly not at 8
>> weeks - when you wouldn't have even had much history to provide.
>>
>>>The only time he was calm was when he was sleeping or eating.
>>
>> Sounds like a typical eight week old puppy. They eat, sleep and play.
>> That's what they do. It's their job, while they are awake, to explore
>> this grand new world.
>>
>>>My vet think he is just a very happy puppy and in time things will
>>>improve.
>>
>> I think that's almost certainly true. But training will make it easier
>> now and later.
>>
>> Have you asked this vet for suggestions for training classes? Not all
>> vets are aware or knowledgeable enough to make good recommendations but
>> it's not a bad place to ask.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Judy
>
> Judy,
> Thanks again for all your information. We live just north of Dallas. I
> will check with the akc link you gave me and try to find a group where I
> can be trained. I know it is I who has the problem. Something else, I
> have to do it all myself. There is another person here, but is of little
> to no help. I am the one with the patience.
> Thanks,
> Petey's Mom
>
 >> Stay informed about: Dog Training