Dew Claw Question

Suja wrote:
>Interesting. I had no idea about all this double dewclaw stuff. Now,
>is there a practical reason for a breed standard to require it?

I can't speak to breeds other than Briards. I actually have a
copy of a book from the 1920s back when the big controversy
in the breed was whether or not to require them. Those arguing
that position held that it was traditional for herding dogs to
have them and that they could potentially provide the foot
with more traction (only if they touch the ground, obviously,
which I've not seen often but does sometime occur).

>Are the doubles any less prone to getting hurt than the single?

Our rear dewclaws (well, our dogs', actually <*g*>) are unlike
the rear dewclaws I've heard of in other breeds. They are very
tight to the hind leg and contain bone. Our dogs seem to rarely
suffer dewclaw injuries (my first Briard never had one; Patience
sprained one once, but that was a front dewclaw, not a rear one).
I suspect that a lot of that is that our dogs were bred to work
in fields and not heavy brush--I don't have a problem with
removing them in breeds that don't require them.

JFWIW,

Dianne
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"dianne marie schoenberg" <diannes.RemoveThis@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:becdvn$13t0$1@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
> Suja wrote:
> >Interesting. I had no idea about all this double dewclaw stuff. Now,
> >is there a practical reason for a breed standard to require it?
>
> I can't speak to breeds other than Briards. I actually have a
> copy of a book from the 1920s back when the big controversy
> in the breed was whether or not to require them. Those arguing
> that position held that it was traditional for herding dogs to
> have them and that they could potentially provide the foot
> with more traction (only if they touch the ground, obviously,
> which I've not seen often but does sometime occur).
>

I know that Belgians are sometimes born with them, but AKC standard
requires their removal. I don't remember if Bodhi had them or
not (or if his breeder mentioned it). Coda doesn't have any,
and I don't know if he ever did, but I don't think so. I have
seen litters of Shelties, ACDs, Aussies, JRTs, and something
else (racking my brain, but I can't remember right now!) come
in for dewclaw removal at the vet's office.
I've seen some pretty icky ones on dogs that have overgrown,
and some icky ones that have gotten torn. We've got a Pit mix
named Chloe that kept injuring hers (she only had one), and
finally when she was spayed they removed it too. Same goes
for my friend's GSD/Rottie/hound mix.
Shelly & The Boys

> >Are the doubles any less prone to getting hurt than the single?
>
> Our rear dewclaws (well, our dogs', actually <*g*>) are unlike
> the rear dewclaws I've heard of in other breeds. They are very
> tight to the hind leg and contain bone. Our dogs seem to rarely
> suffer dewclaw injuries (my first Briard never had one; Patience
> sprained one once, but that was a front dewclaw, not a rear one).
> I suspect that a lot of that is that our dogs were bred to work
> in fields and not heavy brush--I don't have a problem with
> removing them in breeds that don't require them.
>
> JFWIW,
>
> Dianne
 >> Stay informed about: Dew Claw Question 

My friend had a GSD with them. They were big and ugly too.


"Christy" <easily.amused.TakeThisOut@gtenospam.net> wrote in message
news:FXhOa.51983$n%5.22471@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "Suja" <spanaval.TakeThisOut@scs.gmu.edu> wrote in message
> news:3F09A39E.2080002@scs.gmu.edu...
> >
> > This is probably a stupid question, but I couldn't find the answer
> > online. Are there particular breeds of dogs that are born with dew
> > claws on their rear legs? I'm asking because my friend's foster dog
> > (GSD) has dew claws on her rear legs, and this is the first time I've
> > ever noticed them on a dog. I realize that they are removed at birth in
> > some breeds, but I don't remember ever seeing them on even the many
> > mixed breed dogs I've met.
>
> Rear dewclaws are pretty common, and I'm almost positive GSD can have
them -
> I can't say for sure but I believe the pop up in all dog breeds. My collie
> mix Dakota has big, loose, ugly ones in the rear, and I know why they
remove
> them at birth!
> Bunny looks purebred to me - can't see anything but GSD there.
>
> Christy
>
>
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"dianne marie schoenberg" <diannes.RemoveThis@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:bec9an$eqs$1@nntp3.u.washington.edu...
> Suja <spanaval.RemoveThis@scs.gmu.edu> wrote:
> >This is probably a stupid question, but I couldn't find the answer
> >online. Are there particular breeds of dogs that are born with dew
> >claws on their rear legs?
>
> Yep. The breed standards for Briards and Great Pyrenees require
> them, as does the standard for the Beauceron (a French herding
> breed related to the Briard). It's a form of polydactyly (more
> than the usual number of fingers and/or toes). It's inherited
> through a dominant gene with variable penetrance, so it only
> takes one parent who carries the gene to produce puppies with
> this trait--but that parent may or may not express that trait
> themselves.

There is the horror story of this briard owner an the vet who said "these
dew claws have to be removed if you want to show the dog..."

On the other, merrier, paw, most dogs that work by running, bird dogs,
hounds, terriers have the standards that asks for no dew claws. Some never
have them (I remember I had red somewhere that there was a Greyhound pup
with dewclaws only once ever in the history of the breed), some have them
removed on the day 1. I do not know what happens in Germany where law bans
removing?

--
Ivana Marinkovic |"After the first four years
Zagreb, Croatia | the dirt does not get any worse."
Http://www.iridis.com/ivanam | --Quentin Crisp
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Ivana M. <ivanam@@iridis.com> wrote:
>"dianne marie schoenberg" <diannes.RemoveThis@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> Yep. The breed standards for Briards and Great Pyrenees require
>> them, as does the standard for the Beauceron (a French herding
>> breed related to the Briard). It's a form of polydactyly (more
>> than the usual number of fingers and/or toes). It's inherited
>> through a dominant gene with variable penetrance, so it only
>> takes one parent who carries the gene to produce puppies with
>> this trait--but that parent may or may not express that trait
>> themselves.
>
>There is the horror story of this briard owner an the vet who said "these
>dew claws have to be removed if you want to show the dog..."

Yep. That's happened in the US too.

Then there's the story relayed to me by a friend recently... she's
a wonderful breeder and has a sterling track record in placing
dogs. But she had placed one pup in a show potential home that
had appeared to be knowledgable about the breed. Several weeks
later they emailed her saying "WHAT are these things on her hind
legs?!? How are we ever going to show her with these?" Her
comment was "I guess I didn't do as good a job of educating as
I should have :-(."

Dianne
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When the ancient war dogs did battle on Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:45:18
-0400, Suja <spanaval RemoveThis @scs.gmu.edu> did speak the following bit of
wisdom:

>Are there particular breeds of dogs that are born with dew
>claws on their rear legs?

Oh... sure! Great Pyrenees and Briards come immediately to mind. In
fact, I believe their Breed Standards REQUIRE double rear dew claws.
* * * * *
Karen C.
Spammers be damned! I can't be emailed from this account...

"You have no power here!
...Be gone! Before somebody drops a house on you too!"
 >> Stay informed about: Dew Claw Question 

When the ancient war dogs did battle on Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:07:39
-0400, Suja <spanaval.RemoveThis@scs.gmu.edu> did speak the following bit of
wisdom:

>That was my understanding of it as well. However, I am yet to meet a
>GSD with rear dew claws, and am wondering if maybe she's mixed with
>something else.

Rear dew claws happen in lots of dogs and breeds of all varieties.
GSDs are one of the breeds where front dew claws are traditionally
left on. But if a pup happens to be born with rear dew claws, they are
just snipped off at birth. No biggie...

* * * * *
Karen C.
Spammers be damned! I can't be emailed from this account...

"You have no power here!
...Be gone! Before somebody drops a house on you too!"
 >> Stay informed about: Dew Claw Question