Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c..

With patience akin to a cat's, flick, on 1/5/2006 5:51 AM typed:

> Perhaps you could enlist the aid of your father's doctor(s) here about the
> medical consequences of him having a large, difficult to control dog with
> his health problems.

This is an excellent suggestion! Thank you! I will discuss it with his
surgeon and hopefully have him be able to convince Dad he needs to make a
different choice.

> Also, a very short-haired dog like a Weim can't live outside 24/7 where the
> temp gets cold.

A point that has already been brought up and filed under the category
of beating the proverbial dead horse in Dad's case. He's so old school at
times it's painful. And very stubborn to accept new information, even if
it comes from a reliable source.

> This is from www.akc.org about the Weimaraner: "Very Serious Faults--White,
> other than a spot on the chest. Eyes other than gray, blue-gray or light
> amber. Black mottled mouth. Non-docked tail. Dogs exhibiting strong fear,
> shyness or extreme nervousness." Maybe he would decide against the dog if
> you could convince him she was the product of extremely poor breeding and
> needed to live with a dog professional.

I'm uncertain about her breeding, but I know for a fact that her
training has been neglected by her former caretakers, and the fact that they
adopted her out because they didn't want to "invest any further time" in her
speaks volumes. I have brought up her fear-response many times now. That and a
flurry of websites may be making an impression. May. Hope springs eternal.

<Excellent Weim info snipped>

All those excerpts and more I've forwarded to Dad at his office to
(hopefully) review and realize that even though Weims are great dogs, they
aren't right for *him*. If he had gone to the AKC website *alone* prior to
adopting Lilly, he would have seen that Weims need more care than the
average mix dog.

> I take it he already has the dog? Find a Weimaraner rescue that can take
> her. Maybe that will help him give her up, knowing that she'll go to a
> caring owner with the wherewithall to do right by the dog. And then you can
> steer him toward a companion animal that would be more suitable.

(Sigh) Yes, Lilly is already in da house. My husband (his son) has been
talking with a couple who run a Weimaraner rescue association on Whidbey Island,
and they would be willing to take her if things don't work out. I myself am
still fighting with Lilly's former caretakers for her most recent vaccine
receipts (they forgot to bring those with her) so she can attend class on 1/14.

My own silly personal thought: Lilly's doggy sixth sense has discovered
that I'm really a cat person, and therefore under much suspicion. ;-)


We'll see what happens; thanks very much for your info --
--
Deb Kraft
cat.TakeThisOut@eskimo.com
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"D. K. Kraft" <cat DeleteThis @eskimo.com> said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

> If he had gone to the AKC website *alone* prior to
> adopting Lilly, he would have seen that Weims need more
> care than the average mix dog.

How so?

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"D. K. Kraft" <cat DeleteThis @eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:dpj2k4$2ao$3@eskinews.eskimo.com...
> Desperate in Lynnwood...
>
>
> I'm looking to any source that may help me convince my father-in-law
> that he has made a poor and uneducated choice in adopting a 2 1/2 year old
> spayed female Weimaraner named Lilly. (Her former caretakers were a
> husband and
> wife with three children who feel they simply can't invest the time into
> the dog
> any longer.)
>
> When he started talking about getting a dog (for companionship: his
> wife
> died just a year ago), for some reason he became absolutely set on getting
> a
> Weimaraner, and did not read or gather information on the breed beyond the
> glowing praises of two family friends who had the dogs when they *were in
> their
> early 30's*. My father-in-law is in his mid-70's, has damage to the
> nerves
> leading to his legs (which makes them react as though they have blood
> clots,
> even though they don't) that has him currently on a walker! He's to
> undergo
> surgery 1/6/06 (this Friday), but how long he'll need to rehabilitate and
> how
> successful the surgery will be at restoring mobility (he's also a
> late-onset
> diabetic and medically obese) is unknown.
>

I've worked in physical therapy in a nursing home for several years now.
The symptoms your describe in your FIL would tend to say to me that this man
will most likely be needing long term care in the very near future. I would
imagine that a short term stay in a nursing home/rehab facility, will be
needed after his surgery. I am hoping that as plans were made for adopting
a young dog, plans were also made for what was to become of the dog if
something were to happen to your FIL. You may not like my idea, but I would
just go ahead and implement those plans while your FIL was in the hospital
for surgery. Then just explain to him the cold hard fact that at this point
in his life, he has enough to worry about just taking care of himself, and
that he is in no shape to take care of this dog. Yeah, he'll be mad as
hell, but it beats the alternative of leaving trying to convince a
impossibly stubborn old man.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"Rocky" <2dogs.RemoveThis@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri9742C22FF9F55australianshepherdca@rocky-dog.com...
> "D. K. Kraft" <cat.RemoveThis@eskimo.com> said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:
>
>> If he had gone to the AKC website *alone* prior to
>> adopting Lilly, he would have seen that Weims need more
>> care than the average mix dog.
>
> How so?

I think it says that they have more-than-average exercise needs.

Seems to me it would be reasonable to consider that, in light of the elderly
owner's health considerations.

flick 100785

>
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"flick" <flick RemoveThis @starband.net> said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

>>> If he had gone to the AKC website *alone* prior to
>>> adopting Lilly, he would have seen that Weims need more
>>> care than the average mix dog.
>>
>> How so?
>
> I think it says that they have more-than-average exercise
> needs.

That's what I thought when I first scanned the post, then I saw
"mix" in there. I agree than Weims are more energetic than many
other dogs, but I wondered why the poster specifically mentioned
that they needed more care than mixes.

Not a big deal - just something that brought me up short.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

This Roger Caras essay on Weims really hits the nail on the head. Could be
why we seem to have hundreds in recue at any point in time.



Roger Caras on Weimaraners


Excerpt from A Celebration of Dogs by Roger Caras

"The Weimaraner is a perfect example of a highly refined breeding experiment
that paid off, but it did produce a breed that is exactly right for some
kinds of people and perfectly dreadful for others. The snobs of Weimar
weren't entirely wrong in the degree to which they protected their creation.

The solid mouse to silver-gray Weimaraner with its short, dense coat is a
dog that simply must have early obedience training or it is capable of being
a first-class pest. It is headstrong, willful, adoring, incredibly
intelligent, and responsive to praise. When a Weimaraner doesn't know what
it is supposed to do it can be counted on to do all the wrong things. I have
known Weimaraners whose owners had not bothered to train them or teach them
manners to go through a plate-glass picture window because they had been
left home alone too long and were bored, bless them. I knew of one that
dragged a charred log from a fireplace and pulled it from room to room
chewing charcoal off as it went. It took a professional cleaning firm to
repair the damage. It could have burned the house down.

That kind of flaky behavior must be seen in contrast to the well-managed
dog, however, or it gives a distorted picture. A well-trained Weimaraner is
a regal accomplishment of canine genetic art, and as intolerably ill-behaved
as a mis-managed specimen can be, that is how extremely good, solid, and
reliable a properly raised example will be. It is one of those dogs, and
this is so often true of the sporting dogs, that it is what you want it to
be. Few dogs can be more of a nuisance than an Irish setter, a Vizsla, or a
Weimaraner that has had its vital energy levels, its need to perform, and
its exuberant love affair with life ignored. They need exercise, they need
training, and they need opportunities to participate in vigorous, ongoing
events. You ignore those facts at considerable risk to your property. I have
known very few sporting dogs that had anything at all wrong with them except
their owners."


--
Ruth, Greta, Woody & Thelma
"
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

Diana wrote:
> "Robin Nuttall" <robinjn DeleteThis @mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:_kawf.684850$x96.575013@attbi_s72...
> [..]

> Weims are increasingly popular in the UK, and with their rising popularity,
> so rise the number in rescue.

It is quite possible that the Weim in the UK does not much resemble the
Weim in the U.S as far as personality is concerned.
>
> My girl is very well bred. She is wonderful - and I can see clearly in her
> that every *problem* I have to over come, is one of my own making BUT with
> an open and curious mind, I am not having any problems turning around
> situations for which I first failed in - eg,. we have a nose with bloodhound
> bred into it, and strong tracking instinct. I thought I was stumped there,
> but we've found another way and its kind and fair, and we are back on (or
> off!) track again.

The Weims I know are almost universally very well bred, several are
finished champions themselves. Their owners are extremely accomplished
trainers, having put high level working titles on several dogs.
>
> Weimaraners are a hobbby / project, but worth every tear and every bead of
> sweat :)
> _ if you can accept that they have a good mind of their own and their own
> intelligence is worthy of taking into account.
>
> Old boy country attitude of *not listening* to your dog, will not work with
> these beauties.

For the Weims I've met, that I know, it is not the owner, it is the dog.
They are not stable mentally. Period. Again, the temperament of Weims in
the UK may be vastly different, I know it is in many breeds--I have a
friend with an absolutely lovely Springer from across the pond, and the
U.S. show Springers are almost universally ruined as far as temperament
is concerned.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"Ruth" <nicholsruth.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> said in
rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

> This Roger Caras essay on Weims really hits the nail on the
> head.

I think you missed my point.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"Robin Nuttall" <robinjn.RemoveThis@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:_kawf.684850$x96.575013@attbi_s72...
But I can tell you that I've known quite a few, all owned
> by accomplished, long term Weim breeders who are all also good
> trainers--and every single one of them has been a big mess

Robin:
I am sorry your exposure to Weims has been so negative. Having owned,
trained, bred and successfully competed both on the bench and in the field,
my experience has not reflected yours. In 35 years in the breed, I have
owned one flake, acquired from a questionable background at the age of nine
months.

I now only do rescue and have seen a number of flakes come through the
doors. With few exceptions, these guys have made wonderful pets once they
were properly re-trained and properly placed.

But, in your favor, that kind of thinking may help reduce the number in
rescue lol

Ruth
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"Rocky" <2dogs.DeleteThis@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
> I think you missed my point.

It certainly wasn't deliberate on my part. Enlighten me please.

Thanks.

Ruth
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

"Ruth" <nicholsruth RemoveThis @bellsouth.net> said in
rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

>> I think you missed my point.
>
> It certainly wasn't deliberate on my part. Enlighten me
> please.

As I wrote in the post to which you responded: "I agree than
Weims are more energetic than many other dogs, but I wondered
why the poster specifically mentioned that they needed more care
than mixes."

I'm really not sure why you followed that up with an essay on
Weimaraners because Caras didn't address why a Weim would need
more care than a mix.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

Matt:

Sorry, a misunderstanding on my part. I was justt aking part in the general
discussion about a breed I am passionate about. Caught up in the moment lol

--
Ruth, Greta, Woody & Thelma
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c.. 

With patience akin to a cat's, nancie, on 1/9/2006 3:26 PM typed:

[Nancie's story snipped]


> Your FIL may not yet be able to accept his life changes and is hanging on to
> his dreams as hard and long as he can. You need to get him help to see that
> this dog is not really the issue, no matter how badly the dog behaves, but
> that he may need to see his future in a more realistic way. Hopefully, he
> can change his outlook if he doesn't feel like it is a personal challenge or
> insult to his independence and ability to care for himself.

Nancie, as much as I appreciate your looking for the positive here, I must
disagree with you, knowing my FIL as I do. He's not elderly, just suffering
from late-onset diabetes and the associated obesity of that condition, which has
lead to the need for his current nerve-repair surgery. In other words, he's
fairly healthy given his condition. He would also be *healthier* if he followed
his doctor's advice regarding his diet, exercise, and be open to other
modalities of treatment, but this is an individual who--and this has been stated
many times by his own sons and his late wife--practices selective hearing and
reading. When he has made up his mind, he will not, as the medieval expression
runs, be gainsayed.

A bit of background for your enlightenment: my brother-in-law started talking
about a dog in March of '05. Myself, my husband (his brother), *and* my
father-in-law gave very good advice about adopting a dog through PAWS or if they
had to have a particular breed, Seattle Purebred Dog Rescue. Hubby and I also
advocated they do research into the breeds and choose one *appropriate* for
their lifestyle and family (niece, 7; nephew, 10). FIL seconded this.
Brother-in-law goes out and gets a Jack Russell Terrier puppy from a "backyard"
breeder mid-November. Now, in January '06, brother-in-law is looking at us and
asking us not to say, "I told you so," when we see him and the (cough) household
damage done by the affectionately called (by my husband) "Jack Russell Terrorist."

Setting of the stage, curtain now rises on the main show. Hubby and I provide
the same information to father-in-law when he muses about getting a dog in
October. We do not take issue with the idea; we think a companion, given that
hubby's mom had been gone now a year, would be a good thing. However,
father-in-law's health must be considered: he is unable to bend over, kneel, or
stoop; he cannot walk quickly or even moderate distances due to his weight and
knees; although he is a large man, he lacks strength. Besides us, a co-worker
of my father-in-law provides him with excellent resources for finding the best
breed match for him, keeping these factors, and his lifestyle and living space
in mind. Father-in-law announces he's going to get a Weimaraner. Co-worker
provides him with facts on the breed, strongly advising him that it isn't a good
match. Father-in-law disregards facts on the breed, including strength,
temperament, and exercise needs. Adoption goes through (I agree there should
have been a stopgap here, but...), and the dog arrives after a long trip from
near Vancouver on Dec. 30th. Former people bring no toys, take leash with them,
side-step questions and give a sketchy history. Household isn't dog-proofed.
Nothing is prepared for her arrival. Father-in-law calls my hubby (who has been
bitten three times previously by large dogs) for help in settling his new dog on
New Year's Eve with a trip to pet store. I, having basic canine care abilities
from my work as a vet tech, step in to support my hubby who looked at me with
deer-caught-in-headlight eyes when father-in-law phoned.

This has been the lead-in to the situation we're in now, finding out that the
Weim in question has been socially starved and stunted since a puppy, which has
culminated in protective aggression now that she has a "pack" established around
her. She was with my father-in-law less than eight days, all told, taking into
account his five hours at the office. He's been gone since his surgery on Jan.
6, leaving his two sons and me to care for the dog. He has physically been
unable to walk her once since she arrived. And she has nipped my sister-in-law,
who won't allow her children (his grandkids) over to the house while my
father-in-law has this particular dog.

Bottom line: there is a dog better suited for my father-in-law who will be
able to become a part of the entire extended family, who doesn't have emotional
trauma of his/her own that needs healing. This isn't the place for this young
female Weim--she needs better, my father-in-law needs other.

> As for the dog, who is caring for it now? Maybe the dog could be rehomed
> and your FIL provided with an explanation that will keep him from being hurt
> too badly psychologically and personally. This may be the time to take
> action and "d**n the consequences".

As stated above, my hubby and myself primarily, with one daily walk out of the
other brother who lives closer. We are in communication with the rescue
personnel who approved the adoption, thinking a re-evaluation is in order.
However, hubby won't take action until he has had a chance to discuss this with
his dad--the dog, after all, is his dad's responsibility. I support his
decision, and we shall see what transpires.


Thanks for your thoughts --
--
Deb Kraft
cat.TakeThisOut@eskimo.com
 >> Stay informed about: Desperate to find convincing info that father-in-law has c..