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Derek's View of Animals

 
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 148



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Derek's View of Animals
Archived from groups: alt>animals>ethics>vegetarian, others (more info?)

"I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."

Derek 03/11/03 13:14

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Derek

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 178



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...
> "I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."
>
> Derek 03/11/03 13:14

>
Here's what I wrote, you lying, covert supporter of vivisection.

"By partially accepting Harrison's argument, I'm sticking
my neck out as far as I can on this. If animals can be
farmed to old age in perfect bucolic settings with vetinary
care, I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm
and eat them. It's the abattoir and frequent abuses of their
right to freedoms that stops me agreeing with him fully."
Derek 03/11/03

Now that we've seen your pathetic attempt to get one
back at me for ruining your AR pose, when are you
going to explain why you support vivisection while also
claiming to support animal rights "Zakhar"?

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD
being experimented on without his consent, is
a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept
that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as your other example, you
have unwittingly shown that you do support
vivisection. You believes that "most of us can
accept that it's the right thing to do", and that
"we can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."

And

"There can be cases for animal experimentation
as there can be for human experiments. It would
make sense to test a new antibiotic for guinea
pigs on guinea pigs rather than humans, don't
you think?"
Zakhar 2003-02-17

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Derek

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 178



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:50 am
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Ray" <camcompany RemoveThis @btconnect.com> wrote in message news:bo8330$68h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
>
> Don't know why you have changed Derek, you used to be a decent guy. You now
> are totally unapproachable.

Good. Fuck off you weepy drunk.
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Ray

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 28



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Derek" <dereknash.DeleteThis@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bo83q6$1ahu4v$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ray" <camcompany.DeleteThis@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:bo8330$68h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Don't know why you have changed Derek, you used to be a decent guy. You
now
> > are totally unapproachable.
>
> Good. Fuck off you weepy drunk.
>
>
See what I mean?

Now answer the questions I asked you yesterday.
You can't can you?
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Derek

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 178



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Ray" <camcompany.DeleteThis@btconnect.com> wrote in message news:bo84mo$8c7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Derek" <dereknash.DeleteThis@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bo83q6$1ahu4v$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Ray" <camcompany.DeleteThis@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:bo8330$68h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > Don't know why you have changed Derek, you used to be a decent guy. You
> now
> > > are totally unapproachable.
> >
> > Good. Fuck off you weepy drunk.
> >
> >
> See what I mean?
>
> Now answer the questions I asked you yesterday.
> You can't can you?
>
I don't answer to lying, blackmailing soaks, Ray.
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Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ray wrote:

> "Derek" <dereknash.RemoveThis@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bo7l4u$1a4flp$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...

>>"Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message

> news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...

>>>"I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."

>>>Derek 03/11/03 13:14
>>Here's what I wrote, you lying, covert supporter of vivisection.

>>"By partially accepting Harrison's argument, I'm sticking
>>my neck out as far as I can on this. If animals can be
>>farmed to old age in perfect bucolic settings with vetinary
>>care, I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm
>>and eat them. It's the abattoir and frequent abuses of their
>>right to freedoms that stops me agreeing with him fully."

>>Derek 03/11/03

<snip>

Why are we all jumping on Derek?

I doubt he meant continuing to farm and eat them *forever*. We were
talking about a heart-attack victim at an animal shelter. He can
enlighten us as to the relationship of his comment to its context.

I think it is like companion animals. The ultimate goal, in AR
terms, is to eliminate companion animal breeding and our
current kind of companion-animal/human relationship. Even the
best-treated companion animal is still in slavery -- as Derek is
talking about farmed animals' "right to freedoms". But as long as
millions of companion animals exist, we must care for them, and
as long as they live until old age in "perfect conditions with
veterinary care", there is not a lot more we can do for the
existing companions. Freeing them to starve and die would NOT
be in accord with AR ideas.

Rat
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Ray

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 28



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Derek" <dereknash.TakeThisOut@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bo866t$1b49mf$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Ray" <camcompany.TakeThisOut@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:bo84mo$8c7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> >
> > "Derek" <dereknash.TakeThisOut@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:bo83q6$1ahu4v$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > "Ray" <camcompany.TakeThisOut@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> > news:bo8330$68h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> > > >
> > > > Don't know why you have changed Derek, you used to be a decent guy.
You
> > now
> > > > are totally unapproachable.
> > >
> > > Good. Fuck off you weepy drunk.
> > >
> > >
> > See what I mean?
> >
> > Now answer the questions I asked you yesterday.
> > You can't can you?
> >
> I don't answer to lying, blackmailing soaks, Ray.
>
>
You have yet to answer why you call me a 'Blackmailer'. Better still, don't
bother.
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 148



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Derek" <dereknash.RemoveThis@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bo7l4u$1a4flp$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Zakhar" <nospam.RemoveThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...


> > "I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."
> >
> > Derek 03/11/03 13:14
>
> >
> Here's what I wrote,

We all know what you wrote.

How are these animals going to die, old age, cancer, heart problems?

A certain percentage will suffer with bad backs, hip joints, etc. It's part
of getting old. Is this suffering acceptable?

Is euthanasia acceptable if they're suffering an incurable painful disease?

Is accidental killing acceptable?

You are advocating the use, and consequent suffering of animals as food.

How many arseholes live in your road Derek, all of them?
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Purple

External


Since: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 68



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Zakhar,

why don't you give us a good reason why we shouldn't
raise and eat animals given Derek's qualifications,
which you decided to snip?
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Derek

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 178



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Zakhar" <nospam.DeleteThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message news:SOSpb.13$oi5.15995@stones.force9.net...
> "Derek" <dereknash.DeleteThis@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:bo7l4u$1a4flp$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > "Zakhar" <nospam.DeleteThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...
>
> > > "I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."
> > >
> > > Derek 03/11/03 13:14
> > >
> > Here's what I wrote,
>
> We all know what you wrote.

Let's put it back to make sure then.

"By partially accepting Harrison's argument, I'm sticking
my neck out as far as I can on this. If animals can be
farmed to old age in perfect bucolic settings with vetinary
care, I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm
and eat them. It's the abattoir and frequent abuses of their
right to freedoms that stops me agreeing with him fully."
Derek 03/11/03
>
> How are these animals going to die, old age, cancer, heart problems?
>
That's right, cunt.
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usual suspect

External


Since: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 12



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals and ARA's on Usenet. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dreck (aka "Jane") wrote:
> Not about that snake he bit the head off, he isn't. He
> was groomed by his father to believe that.

Do you care to back up your slanderous accusations with any proof? Too
bad you're insolvent so I can't sue your sorry fat ass, you lazy oaf.

>>The problem isn't everyone else, Dreck, as you wish to
>>try to portray it. The problem is with you:
>>dishonest, amoral, sociopathic.
>
> Not at all. I'm not the hypocrite

Yes, you are.

> who claims to hold a
> belief in animal rights while also holding a belief that
> my actions violate those said rights, Ball.

You're even worse then the typical hypocrite since you knowingly pass
the buck and feel exonerated.
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 148



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Derek" <dereknash.TakeThisOut@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bo8vqg$1ajisr$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Zakhar" <nospam.TakeThisOut@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:SOSpb.13$oi5.15995@stones.force9.net...
> > "Derek" <dereknash.TakeThisOut@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bo7l4u$1a4flp$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > "Zakhar" <nospam.TakeThisOut@donotuse123.com> wrote in message
news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...
> >
> > > > "I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."
> > > >
> > > > Derek 03/11/03 13:14
> > > >
> > > Here's what I wrote,
> >
> > We all know what you wrote.
>
> Let's put it back to make sure then.
>
I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm
> and eat them.> Derek 03/11/03

> >
> > How are these animals going to die, old age, cancer, heart problems?
> >
> That's right

Dodges noted by all, LOL.

You are advocating the use, and consequent suffering of animals as food.


>
>
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 148



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Rat & Swan" <labrat DeleteThis @cybermesa.com> wrote in message
news:bo919q$5u9$1@reader2.nmix.net...
>
>
> Ray wrote:
>
> > "Derek" <dereknash DeleteThis @btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:bo7l4u$1a4flp$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >>"Zakhar" <nospam DeleteThis @donotuse123.com> wrote in message
>
> > news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...
>
> >>>"I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."
>
> >>>Derek 03/11/03 13:14
> >>Here's what I wrote, you lying, covert supporter of vivisection.
>
> >>"By partially accepting Harrison's argument, I'm sticking
> >>my neck out as far as I can on this. If animals can be
> >>farmed to old age in perfect bucolic settings with vetinary
> >>care, I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm
> >>and eat them. It's the abattoir and frequent abuses of their
> >>right to freedoms that stops me agreeing with him fully."
>
> >>Derek 03/11/03
>
> <snip>
>
> Why are we all jumping on Derek?

Guess.

>
> I doubt he meant continuing to farm and eat them *forever*. We were
> talking about a heart-attack victim at an animal shelter. He can
> enlighten us as to the relationship of his comment to its context.

He wrote

"I see no reason why we shouldn't *continue* to farm and eat them"

>
> I think it is like companion animals. The ultimate goal, in AR
> terms, is to eliminate companion animal breeding and our
> current kind of companion-animal/human relationship.

What wrong with living with other species?

>Even the
> best-treated companion animal is still in slavery -- as Derek is
> talking about farmed animals' "right to freedoms". But as long as
> millions of companion animals exist, we must care for them, and
> as long as they live until old age in "perfect conditions with
> veterinary care", there is not a lot more we can do for the
> existing companions. Freeing them to starve and die would NOT
> be in accord with AR ideas.

He is advocating the use of animals as food.


>
> Rat
>
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Derek

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 178



(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:56 am
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Rat & Swan" <labrat.DeleteThis@cybermesa.com> wrote in message news:bo919q$5u9$1@reader2.nmix.net...
> Ray wrote:
> > "Derek" <dereknash.DeleteThis@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:bo7l4u$1a4flp$1@ID-190488.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >"Zakhar" <nospam.DeleteThis@donotuse123.com> wrote in message news:%gApb.676$mX3.746009@stones.force9.net...
> > >
> > > > "I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them."
> > > > Derek 03/11/03 13:14
> > > >
> > > Here's what I wrote, you lying, covert supporter of vivisection.
> > >
> > > "By partially accepting Harrison's argument, I'm sticking
> > > my neck out as far as I can on this. If animals can be
> > > farmed to old age in perfect bucolic settings with vetinary
> > > care, I see no reason why we shouldn't continue to farm
> > > and eat them. It's the abattoir and frequent abuses of their
> > > right to freedoms that stops me agreeing with him fully."
> > >Derek 03/11/03
>
> <snip>
>
> Why are we all jumping on Derek?
>
It's because I've exposed half the so-called AR
members as supporters of vivisection, that's why.

Zakhar claims to be in support for animal rights
and against the use of animals for research in labs,
but this pose is a lie and is easily shown by his own
comments;

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

And

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD
being experimented on without his consent, is
a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept
that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as his other example, he has
unwittingly shown that he does support vivisection.
He believes that "most of us can accept that it's the
right thing to do", and that "we can take the same
decision making process, independent of species."

And

"There can be cases for animal experimentation
as there can be for human experiments. It would
make sense to test a new antibiotic for guinea
pigs on guinea pigs rather than humans, don't
you think?"
Zakhar 2003-02-17

Larry is just as big a liar as Zakhar, and this can
be easily shown by his comment;

"I support using animals for experimentation but
a committee should oversee such endeavors to
make sure the minimal harm is done for the
maximal good."
Larry 2003-10-27

Ray supports and defends Zakhar by proclaiming
him to be "valuable defender of all animal rights
issues" in spite of the evidence showing the opposite,
and, as a defender of those who support vivisection,
he has experienced a full-on attack from me like any
other anti would who promotes or supports vivisection.

> I doubt he meant continuing to farm and eat them *forever*. We were
> talking about a heart-attack victim at an animal shelter. He can
> enlighten us as to the relationship of his comment to its context.
>
> I think it is like companion animals. The ultimate goal, in AR
> terms, is to eliminate companion animal breeding and our
> current kind of companion-animal/human relationship. Even the
> best-treated companion animal is still in slavery -- as Derek is
> talking about farmed animals' "right to freedoms". But as long as
> millions of companion animals exist, we must care for them, and
> as long as they live until old age in "perfect conditions with
> veterinary care", there is not a lot more we can do for the
> existing companions. Freeing them to starve and die would NOT
> be in accord with AR ideas.
>
Exactly so!

> Rat
>
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Derek

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 178



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:58 am
Post subject: Re: Derek's View of Animals [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Purple" <purple2510.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9e034035.0311041724.11ad3e4d@posting.google.com...
> Zakhar,
>
> why don't you give us a good reason why we shouldn't
> raise and eat animals given Derek's qualifications,
> which you decided to snip?

To put the record straight on this. That quote of
mine has been dishonestly taken entirely out of
context. In fact, it only includes half a sentence
which begins with an "if" condition which has been
completely omitted.

"By partially accepting Harrison's argument, I'm
sticking my neck out as far as I can on this. *If
animals can be farmed to old age in perfect bucolic
settings with vetinary care*, I see no reason why
we shouldn't continue to farm and eat them. It's the
abattoir and frequent abuses of their right to
freedoms that stops me agreeing with him fully."
*my emphasis*
Derek 03/11/03

My partial acceptance of Harrison's argument is well
documented.

"Our World is much richer because we have animals
to share it with. David has every reason to want more
and more animals to experience life. I do. But get rid
of the slaughter house if that's where they're destined."
firstoftwins 2001-09-28
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