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Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids

 
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Paul Gear

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Since: Jun 11, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids
Archived from groups: rec>pets>birds (more info?)

Hi all,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on how to get my cockatiel to stop
biting the kids. He's the first bird our family has had, so we're still
learning, but we did as much research on caring for him as we could
before we bought him, and i think we were reasonably well prepared.

Timothy (presumed male - not confirmed) is about 8-9 months old, and
seems to be a fairly normal, happy, healthy cockatiel. I am the primary
person who introduced him to our house and he loves me to bits - he's
always champing at the bit wanting to get on my finger or shoulder
whenever i walk near his cage, or even just look at him.

He was doing pretty well until our 5-year-old got him when neither Mum
nor Dad was in the room, and decided to wave him around above his head
trying to get him to fly. This frightened the life out of Timothy, and
he has never trusted the boys since (our other son is 8) - he will hop
up on their fingers (reluctantly), but won't even submit to the simplest
of pats or head scratches (which he accepts from me without question),
and as soon as he's finished the treat he gets from them, he starts
biting at the hand that's holding him.

I've lectured the kids on being still and quiet around him, and on being
brave and accepting his bites until they regain his trust, and as best
they can they're doing it, but it doesn't seem to be working. I've been
told by other cockatiel owners that a light and touch deprivation
program may be necessary to get him to be nice again, but it seems a bit
over the top for something that i thought *should* be relatively simple
to fix. (Obviously it's not that simple...)

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

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Dave Bugg

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Since: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 180



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Paul Gear wrote:

> He was doing pretty well until our 5-year-old got him when neither Mum
> nor Dad was in the room, and decided to wave him around above his head
> trying to get him to fly.

That says it all. Your living situation and ability to supervise young
children are not compatible with the needs of a bird. Perhaps you might find
a suitable new owner for the bird. Then when your children are grown.......

A bird's tolerance to handling is based on trust. It is amazing to me that
the 'tiel would even be willing to be handled at all after being frightened
by -- in the bird's view -- a potential predator. Disciplining a bird for
doing what is natural to protect itself would be cruel.

The 'tiel is not a toy. The ability to handle, touch, scritch or play with
any bird is not the primary reason for owning one. You may just have to be
content with having him on your finger. If that is not enough, then do the
bird a favor and find it a new home.

Your children are still a threat to the bird because you cannot be assured
that their behavior around the bird will change and stay changed.


--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

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nospam

External


Since: May 21, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nothing works like food. Have your kids feed them by hand on
a regular basis. Once the birds figure out that kids = food instead
of kids = threat the biting should eventually cease.

"Paul Gear" <paulNO.TakeThisOut@SPAMgear.dyndns.org> wrote in message news:466d2118$0$22461$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for a bit of advice on how to get my cockatiel to stop
> biting the kids. He's the first bird our family has had, so we're still
> learning, but we did as much research on caring for him as we could
> before we bought him, and i think we were reasonably well prepared.
>
> Timothy (presumed male - not confirmed) is about 8-9 months old, and
> seems to be a fairly normal, happy, healthy cockatiel. I am the primary
> person who introduced him to our house and he loves me to bits - he's
> always champing at the bit wanting to get on my finger or shoulder
> whenever i walk near his cage, or even just look at him.
>
> He was doing pretty well until our 5-year-old got him when neither Mum
> nor Dad was in the room, and decided to wave him around above his head
> trying to get him to fly. This frightened the life out of Timothy, and
> he has never trusted the boys since (our other son is 8) - he will hop
> up on their fingers (reluctantly), but won't even submit to the simplest
> of pats or head scratches (which he accepts from me without question),
> and as soon as he's finished the treat he gets from them, he starts
> biting at the hand that's holding him.
>
> I've lectured the kids on being still and quiet around him, and on being
> brave and accepting his bites until they regain his trust, and as best
> they can they're doing it, but it doesn't seem to be working. I've been
> told by other cockatiel owners that a light and touch deprivation
> program may be necessary to get him to be nice again, but it seems a bit
> over the top for something that i thought *should* be relatively simple
> to fix. (Obviously it's not that simple...)
>
> Any advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
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Alex Clayton

External


Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 602



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Paul Gear" <paulNO.DeleteThis@SPAMgear.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:466d2118$0$22461$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Hi all,
>
> He was doing pretty well until our 5-year-old got him when neither Mum
> nor Dad was in the room, and decided to wave him around above his head
> trying to get him to fly. This frightened the life out of Timothy, and
> he has never trusted the boys since.

"Birds" seldom make a good pet for children, and you just gave a great
example as to why. Birds are not dogs or cats and never will act like them.
They have long memories which in the wild helps them find food. My
recommendation is keep the birds cage locked when you are not around, or
give the bird to someone else. Get a "family pet" that the kids can enjoy.
--
Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer.
Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does
not go nearly as well with pizza.
--Dave Barry
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Paul Gear

External


Since: Jun 11, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Alex Clayton wrote:
> ...
>> He was doing pretty well until our 5-year-old got him when neither Mum
>> nor Dad was in the room, and decided to wave him around above his head
>> trying to get him to fly. This frightened the life out of Timothy, and
>> he has never trusted the boys since.
>
> "Birds" seldom make a good pet for children, and you just gave a great
> example as to why. Birds are not dogs or cats and never will act like them.
> They have long memories which in the wild helps them find food. My
> recommendation is keep the birds cage locked when you are not around, or
> give the bird to someone else. Get a "family pet" that the kids can enjoy.

Hi Alex (& Dave),

The whole point of having this bird in our family is to teach my sons
the value of restraint around animals other than "standard" family pets.
Yes, we made a mistake, but that's part of the process of the boys
learning to respect birds. I'm sure we'll make more mistakes along the
way, too. I'm just looking for advice on recovering from this mistake.

Regards,
Paul
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Alex Clayton

External


Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 602



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Paul Gear" <paulNO.DeleteThis@SPAMgear.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:466ddf1d$0$22429$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Hi Alex (& Dave),
>
> The whole point of having this bird in our family is to teach my sons
> the value of restraint around animals other than "standard" family pets.
> Yes, we made a mistake, but that's part of the process of the boys
> learning to respect birds. I'm sure we'll make more mistakes along the
> way, too. I'm just looking for advice on recovering from this mistake.
>
> Regards,
> Paul

Best advice I can give you then is give the bird to someone else. I'm sure
that is not what you want to hear, so the bird will end up dead or seriously
damaged by your idea of "fun learning" experience. The sad thing is it's a
shame someone can't do to you what you are doing to the bird. Now that I
would love to watch.
--
"Liberalism is a mental disorder."
Michael Savage
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Dave Bugg

External


Since: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 180



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Paul Gear wrote:
> Alex Clayton wrote:
>> ...
>>> He was doing pretty well until our 5-year-old got him when neither
>>> Mum nor Dad was in the room, and decided to wave him around above
>>> his head trying to get him to fly. This frightened the life out of
>>> Timothy, and he has never trusted the boys since.
>>
>> "Birds" seldom make a good pet for children, and you just gave a
>> great example as to why. Birds are not dogs or cats and never will
>> act like them. They have long memories which in the wild helps them
>> find food. My recommendation is keep the birds cage locked when you
>> are not around, or give the bird to someone else. Get a "family pet"
>> that the kids can enjoy.
>
> Hi Alex (& Dave),
>
> The whole point of having this bird in our family is to teach my sons
> the value of restraint around animals other than "standard" family
> pets.

I'm sorry, but I have trouble with the idea of your making that bird an
object for teaching your children restraint. That is unacceptable on so many
levels.



Yes, we made a mistake, but that's part of the process of the
> boys
> learning to respect birds.

You consider subjecting that 'tiel to your children's irresponsible behavior
'part of a process' for instilling respect? <Shaking my head>


> I'm sure we'll make more mistakes along
> the way, too.

Without a doubt. A five year old simply being a five year old is a bird
accident waiting to happen.

> I'm just looking for advice on recovering from this
> mistake.

To what end? As you admitted and the rest of us know, the bird will be
subjected to the continued probability of other, and perhaps more serious,
misdeeds Give the bird to a responsible owner and buy the children a black
mamba. They will be forced to adopt appropriate behavior immediately, or
suffer the consequences. Seriously, you should not have any animal,
especially a bird, as an training tool for a child.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com
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Louis Boyd

External


Since: Mar 24, 2005
Posts: 220



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Paul Gear wrote:

> Hi Alex (& Dave),
>
> The whole point of having this bird in our family is to teach my sons
> the value of restraint around animals other than "standard" family pets.
> Yes, we made a mistake, but that's part of the process of the boys
> learning to respect birds. I'm sure we'll make more mistakes along the
> way, too. I'm just looking for advice on recovering from this mistake.

Hard bites which remove chunks of flesh is perfectly normal behavior for
a little bird being attacked by a large predator. Accept the fact that
your child is a large predator and he did grab the bird such that it
could not freely escape. My three macaws and CAG are bonded to me and
perfectly trustworthy sitting on my shoulder next to my face, but if I
grabbed then so that they realized they couldn't fly away I'd expect my
hands to be bleeding profusely. That's perfectly normal behavior for
any parrot.

You probably can turn this around, but the training is needed for your
and your children, not for the bird! Have a long talk with your
children about how the world looks to the bird. Point out than humans
are predators who normally eat both birds (chicken, turkey and in some
countries parrots) and bird eggs. Point how how fragile a bird is.
Have them imagine if they were forced to live with a semi-intelligent
creature the size of T-Rex which has (maybe) decided that it wants to
keep them as pets instead of to do what's natural and eat them. How
would they want that creature to behave toward them? The size and
strength difference is about the same proportion.

Unlike dogs, birds do not want masters and don't follow a pack leader.
Unlike cats they don't want to be petted, though they may enjoy gentle
scratches on the head and neck and feather grooming from thiner close
companions. What birds do want companionship and security. It's the
need for the safety of a flock that makes birds good pets. You must
allow a bird to become a member of your flock. You're flock is all the
creatures you consider your close companions. You cannot force that to
happen by intimidation or training. It's important that your bird sees
all of you as flock mates and none as predators. If that doesn't happen
your bird will try to defend some of you against the others, which
won't be pleasant. It can cause a lot of strife in a human family if a
pet bird bonds to one family member and attacks the rest.

Above all, be gentle with the bird at all times. Don't try to make the
bird be anything but a bird. It won't happen and will just prevent the
bird from accepting you and your flock. It's up to you and your family
to behave sufficiently like a friendly flock of birds that your
cockatiel can accept you. That's not very difficult.

Things to do.

Never scare the bird. Don't grab or surprise the bird. Treat the bird
like it's part of your family at all times, whether it responds or not.
Be near the bird as much as possible. A distance of a few feet is good.
Keep regular hours. Birds expect to sleep at night and be awake in the
daytime. Share food with your bird. If you're having a sandwich offer
it a little piece. Sleeping near your bird is a quick way to help gain
trust and security. Again, near is relative. A few feet. I often
sleep with me scarlet macaw on a perch four feet from my bed, my CAG
sitting on the foot board, and my White Front Amazon cuddled against the
top of my head sitting on the pillow. I'm not saying that will work
for you.

Talk to your bird. Birds like to chatter with each other. Repeat back
what you hear your bird say. Interact vocally Also let them here your
normal voice. Just remember that many parrots may repeat what they
hear which can be annoying or embarrassing if they pick the the "wrong"
things. Avoid sharp noises which scare a bird. As the bird accepts you
as a flockmate it will try to warn you of danger. In a flock birds
will pass along danger warnings.

Make sure the environment is safe for the bird. Other pets like cats or
dogs should never be allowed near your bird unless it's fully capable of
escape (flying and not caged). Remember that whether the cat or dog
ever attacks the bird isn't the point. It's whether the bird thinks it
might. A caged bird while safe may be very stressed by the presence of
predators. That applies to your kids, especially ones which have
already demonstrated that they can't be trusted not to attack.

Tell your kids that they must not touch the bird at all. They can offer
it food but not insist that the bird take the food. Do that when the
bird is free to retreat, not when cornered. After some time which
could be months or years the bird may accept that your children are
friendly and no longer a threat. It is not natural for a bird to stand
on it's friends and friendly birds never grab and hold each other. (in
mating they may but not with other members of the flock and not even in
courtship) Letting a bird sit on your finger or shoulder is an activity
for AFTER your bird accepts you (or your kids) as a friend. A small
bird may perceive "you" as only your head and the rest of your body as
noting more than the equivalent of a tree. Often small birds will
perceive your hands as some kind of serpent, completely independent of
your head. A bird may well bite a hand when it wouldn't consider biting
the face.

Give your bird plenty of time outside of the cage. I don't cage my
birds at all, but I've arranged my house to accommodate the habits of
birds. That doesn't work for most people. Let the bird decide whether
it wants to be near you or your kids when it's out of it's cage. Don't
force it. Don't grab the bird to put it back in it's cage. If you do
cage your bird it must consider it's cage as home and safety, not
entrapment or punishment.

If you kids keep scaring the bird by grabbing it they should expect to
continue to get bitten and the bird will never accept them. It's also
possibly he bird will decide to never trust any humans again. Birds
have very long memories.
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Starlight

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Since: Feb 19, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Curing my cockatiel of biting the kids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:01:36 -0700, Louis Boyd
<boyd DeleteThis @apt0.sao.arizona.edu> posted:

>Paul Gear wrote:
>
>> Hi Alex (& Dave),
>>
>> The whole point of having this bird in our family is to teach my sons
>> the value of restraint around animals other than "standard" family pets.
>> Yes, we made a mistake, but that's part of the process of the boys
>> learning to respect birds. I'm sure we'll make more mistakes along the
>> way, too. I'm just looking for advice on recovering from this mistake.

>
>You probably can turn this around, but the training is needed for your
>and your children, not for the bird! Have a long talk with your
>children about how the world looks to the bird. Point out than humans
>are predators who normally eat both birds (chicken, turkey and in some
>countries parrots) and bird eggs. Point how how fragile a bird is.
>Have them imagine if they were forced to live with a semi-intelligent
>creature the size of T-Rex which has (maybe) decided that it wants to
>keep them as pets instead of to do what's natural and eat them. How
>would they want that creature to behave toward them? The size and
>strength difference is about the same proportion.
>

Great post, Louis!!
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