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1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please!

 
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Marulira

External


Since: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:00 am
Post subject: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please!
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs, others (more info?)

We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come across 2 1.5YO dogs who
are incredibly sweet. They seem to be in excellent health (I will get
them checked by a vet if I decide to get one or both). My concerns:

We were looking to get only 1 dog. We plan to expand on our dog
family in another couple of years but I wanted to start with 1 now.
Since these two little guys have been together all along, is it cruel
of me to separate them? The owner is willing to either way though she
would prefer it if they went together. My SO feels that since we will
be getting another one down the road, why not get two now? Both of us
work so the dog will be by himself about 8 hour a day (except for the
company of a very talkative cockatiel). Both these dogs have been in
a similar situation since the owner is gone most of the day and
returns only in the evening. But at least they had each other for
company...Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
M

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FurPaw

External


Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 90



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Marulira wrote:

> We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come across 2 1.5YO dogs who
> are incredibly sweet. They seem to be in excellent health (I will get
> them checked by a vet if I decide to get one or both). My concerns:
>
> We were looking to get only 1 dog. We plan to expand on our dog
> family in another couple of years but I wanted to start with 1 now.
> Since these two little guys have been together all along, is it cruel
> of me to separate them? The owner is willing to either way though she
> would prefer it if they went together. My SO feels that since we will
> be getting another one down the road, why not get two now? Both of us
> work so the dog will be by himself about 8 hour a day (except for the
> company of a very talkative cockatiel). Both these dogs have been in
> a similar situation since the owner is gone most of the day and
> returns only in the evening. But at least they had each other for
> company...Any advice would be appreciated.

Against all advice to the contrary, we got two chihuahua puppies - 12
wks old. We went to get one, but came home with two - they were
littermates and just so adorable together.

I know - that's not a good reason for getting two. We had had a
"single" chihuahua for sixteen years, and we both worked. I felt badly
about leaving her home alone all day, but she didn't take well to other
dogs. We had already decided that we wouldn't have another singleton,
for precisely some of the reasons you mention - particularly having each
other for company while we were at work. So we had planned to get a
second dog soon after the first one, just not concurrently.

It worked out very well for us and for the dogs. Yes, they *are*
well-bonded to each other, but they also bonded to us individually. They
have always gotten along with each other. Gordo, the male, is my velcro
dog. Chile, the female, is more independent. Training was a bit more
difficult than with a singleton, but not extraordinarily so; after all
these dogs are very small. I wouldn't say the same thing about getting
two GSD puppies at the same time.

Gordo and Chile are now twelve and a half years old, and they are still
adorable together. :-)

So you see my bias. If you think you can handle the two dogs and if
both you and your SO will actively participate in their training, I'd
say go for it. Especially since they are already bonded and you know
they get along well. But you know your needs and circumstances better
than I do.

Good luck, whatever your decision.

FurPaw
To respond, unleash the dog

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Rocky

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Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 2940



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Marulira said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come across 2
> 1.5YO dogs who are incredibly sweet. They seem to be in
> excellent health (I will get them checked by a vet if I
> decide to get one or both). My concerns:
>
> We were looking to get only 1 dog. We plan to expand on
> our dog family in another couple of years but I wanted to
> start with 1 now. Since these two little guys have been
> together all along, is it cruel of me to separate them?

Wow. What a difficult decision. The normal advice is to not
raise two puppies together because of constraints on your time
and the natural bonding they'll do with each other.

> The owner is willing to either way though she would prefer
> it if they went together. My SO feels that since we will
> be getting another one down the road, why not get two now?

How willing is your SO to be involved in the training of your
dogs? I think that it can work out well if you give a good deal
of time to train both dogs separately and to swap them between
you and your SO.

> Both of us work so the dog will be by himself about 8 hour
> a day (except for the company of a very talkative
> cockatiel). Both these dogs have been in a similar
> situation since the owner is gone most of the day and
> returns only in the evening. But at least they had each
> other for company.

Other than defecation issues, eight hours is not overly long for
an accompanied dog. If you have the training support of your
SO, I'd say go for it.

It would be a good idea to take both dogs to an obedience class,
separately though. If you go to more than one, swap dogs after
each series of classes, not individual classes.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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Christy

External


Since: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 331



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>breeds (more info?)

"Marulira" <marita RemoveThis @sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
news:8211d71f.0402231100.4c7e94eb@posting.google.com...
> We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come across 2 1.5YO dogs who
> are incredibly sweet. They seem to be in excellent health (I will get
> them checked by a vet if I decide to get one or both). My concerns:
>
> We were looking to get only 1 dog. We plan to expand on our dog
> family in another couple of years but I wanted to start with 1 now.
> Since these two little guys have been together all along, is it cruel
> of me to separate them? The owner is willing to either way though she
> would prefer it if they went together. My SO feels that since we will
> be getting another one down the road, why not get two now? Both of us
> work so the dog will be by himself about 8 hour a day (except for the
> company of a very talkative cockatiel). Both these dogs have been in
> a similar situation since the owner is gone most of the day and
> returns only in the evening. But at least they had each other for
> company...Any advice would be appreciated.

Since they are already mature dogs, not tiny puppies, I would say go for it!
If they are already a bonded pair they will probably adapt to their new home
better than if separated. Matt mentioned separate obedience classes - that
is a great idea, because you don't want them to be SO bonded that they can
never be apart, and they are still young enough to keep that from happening.
Separate walks, training time at home, etc. will all help.
However, if you do decide on just one, it isn't really cruel. They are still
young and would likely be fine apart. When you're talking two dogs who've
been together 8-10 years, then yeah, it is tough to separate them, but these
guys are really just out of puppyhood.

Christy
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The Puppy Wizard

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 3494



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs, others (more info?)

HOWEDY matty,

"Rocky" <2dogs.TakeThisOut@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94987E2D4AB41australianshepherdca@rocky-dog.com...
>
> Marulira said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come across 2
> > 1.5YO dogs who are incredibly sweet. They seem to be in
> > excellent health (I will get them checked by a vet if I
> > decide to get one or both). My concerns:
> >
> > We were looking to get only 1 dog. We plan to expand on
> > our dog family in another couple of years but I wanted to
> > start with 1 now. Since these two little guys have been
> > together all along, is it cruel of me to separate them?
>
> Wow. What a difficult decision.

Well DIFFICULT decisions are EZ to make.
THAT'S HOWE COME you HURT and KILL
dogs you can't train.

> The normal advice is

The NORMAL advice is that you're a liar and
dog abuser and MENTAL CASE, matty.

> to not raise two puppies together because
> of constraints on your time and the natural
> bonding they'll do with each other.

Well that's a flat HOWET LIE, matty. The NORMAL
ADVICE is HOWE COME you can't TRAIN two same
aged puppys cause they BOND TOGETHER IN
DEFENSE from your ABUSE, cause you're a MENTAL
CASE, matty.

> > The owner is willing to either way though she would prefer
> > it if they went together. My SO feels that since we will
> > be getting another one down the road, why not get two now?

PRECISELY.

> How willing is your SO to be involved in the
> training of your dogs?

You mean jerking and choking and shocking them, matty?

> I think that it can work out well if you give a good deal
> of time to train both dogs separately and to swap them
> between you and your SO.

Well you're a liar and a dog abuser and your
own dog has SEIZURES cause you ABUSED HIM.

> > Both of us work so the dog will be by himself about 8 hour
> > a day (except for the company of a very talkative
> > cockatiel). Both these dogs have been in a similar
> > situation since the owner is gone most of the day and
> > returns only in the evening. But at least they had each
> > other for company.
>
> Other than defecation issues,

BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> eight hours is not overly long for
> an accompanied dog.

That so, matty?

> If you have the training support of your
> SO, I'd say go for it.

You mean if her DH is willin to HURT and INTIMIDATE
and lock them in boxes, matty?

> It would be a good idea to take both dogs to an
> obedience class,

Oh? Like janet boss done for nessa and her dogs
till they destroyed her HOWES and TURNED ON HER?

> separately though.

Cause you need a EXXXPERT PROFESSIONAL
DOG ABUSER to SHOWE YOU HOWE to HURT
your dog pupperly cause you can't learn the TIMING
necessary to INFLICT PAIN and INTIMDATE your
dogs from a BOOK, matty?

> If you go to more than one, swap dogs after
> each series of classes, not individual classes.

BWEEHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

You can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE matty
cause you're a liar and a dog abuser and a mental
case:


"Rocky" <2dogs.TakeThisOut@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and praise
> > to solve a problem with using shock collars,
> > hanging,and punishment how can you
> > criticize the use of sound?
>
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning that
> you're a professor with 30 years of experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of people
> recommending "shock collars, hanging, and
> punishment"?
>
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Can you tell the truth from a lie?:

> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.

> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.

> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

You think matty's playin with a full goddamned deck?

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK"
Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When
You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up
The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping
Sound To The Dog."

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================


"An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him," wm koehler.

That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's
professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.


Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

Here's lyingdogDUMMY BEATIN a dog to
HOWEsbreak IT. But FIRST, a little good
KOEHLER trainin:

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will continue to
mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then
leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you can come back at
twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light
spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate
punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well as the
house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to relieve
himself inside the house, regardless of how often he has the
opportunity to go outside. This dog may require punishment.
Make certain he is equipped with a collar and piece of line so
he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place
of his error, and hold his head close enough so that he
associates his error with the punishment. Punish him by
spanking him with a light strap or switch. Either one is
better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do not
rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances are, if you
are careful in your feeding and close observation, you will
not have to do much punishing. Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force him to commit an
error by not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and then
backslides, the method of correction differs somewhat. In this
group of "backsliders" we have the "revenge piddler." This dog
protests being alone by messing on the floor and often in the
middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in
a part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly
reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable
in the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and
it leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently
to convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not
worth the consequences. If the punishment is not severe
enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they're winning
and will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorrison.TakeThisOut@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar716.TakeThisOut@aol.com (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >>list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >>matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> >to use Koehlers
> >methods or teach his methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> >wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> >Positive Reinforcement
> >Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> >start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> >I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE,
> even after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail


"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorrison.TakeThisOut@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_brock.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> >if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> >his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> >housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> >stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail
 >> Stay informed about: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! 
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Login to vote
The Puppy Wizard

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 3494



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

HOWEDY Marulira,

"Marulira" <marita.DeleteThis@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
news:8211d71f.0402231100.4c7e94eb@posting.google.com...
>
> We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come
> across 2 1.5YO dogs who are incredibly sweet.

EXXXCELLENT. You want to keep them like that?

> They seem to be in excellent health (I will get
> them checked by a vet if I decide to get one or both).

Good.

> My concerns:
>
> We were looking to get only 1 dog.

Two are MOORE FUN.

> We plan to expand on our dog family in another
> couple of years

No time like the present.

> but I wanted to start with 1 now.

> Since these two little guys have been together
> all along, is it cruel of me to separate them?

HOWE would you like to be separated from
your life long pal?

> The owner is willing to either way though she
> would prefer it if they went together.

Well GO FOR IT.

> My SO feels that since we will be getting another
> one down the road, why not get two now?

An EXXXCELLENT idea.

> Both of us work so the dog will be by himself
> about 8 hour a day (except for the company of
> a very talkative cockatiel). Both these dogs have
> been in a similar situation since the owner is gone
> most of the day and returns only in the evening.

NO PROBLEMO.

> But at least they had each other for company...

Your dog values the quality time you spend
together, not the time you're not together.

> Any advice would be appreciated.

You're asing LIARS DOG ABUSERS and A
ACTIVE INCURABLE LONG TERM MENTAL
PATIENTS for advice that they ain't got.

> Thanks,

You been readin HOWER forums?

> M


> | ----- Original Message -----
> | From: "N"
> | To: "The Puppy Wizard" <thepuppywizard.DeleteThis@earthlink.net>
> | Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:10 PM
> | Subject: Hi Jerry

> | > Hi Jerry
> | >
> | > I read your manual years ago and never got
> | > around for thanking you for getting me to read it.

> | > Have never been back to the dog newsgroups
> | > due to the frightening amount of people
> | > offering sad advice.
> | >
> | > Keep up the excellent work!
> | >
> | > Thanks
> | > N

----- Original Message -----
From: "N"
To: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard.DeleteThis@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Hi Jerry

> It's good to post happy camper feedbacks in
> your favour for others to see, but between you
> and me, your posts themselves prove your success.
>
> As far as I can tell you have been the most
> constant poster with the most constant advice;
> never veering from what you know best.

> I've never heard you contradict yourself. A
> trait that's unheard of in newsgroups these
> days. And I'll vouch it's not bullshit.
>
> Ta
> N

HOWEDY N,

Indeed. Over the years my information
and consistency have become more
inflexible thanks to the constant challenges
especially from the more learned university
trained behaviorists.

The ng's have been a wonderful learning
experience for me. Have you read "Misbehavior
Of Organism's" by Breeland and Breeland?

Nothing makes for better business than
tough competition. And giving it up for
FREE is a special reward. Perhaps that
only caters to my own vindicive nature?

Yours, Jerry.

New Law Of Physics

HOWEDY People,

"The amount of misery and difficulty a dog abuser has from
their dogs is directly proportionate to the number of times
they've WARNED people to KILLFILE Jerry and not study
your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual..."

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior Never
Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results For All
Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual."

The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

Here's Disciple Paulie:

Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits End
Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey And
don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That Deals With
Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built On Trust And
Understanding."

Disciple Paulie Writes:

I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them they are
good dogs and they seem to follow me, once I told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me, now I only ever tell
them they are good dogs and they always are, always.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll find your
dog thinking then responding everytime.

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.

Paul.

========================

Two HOWETA three Pauls PREFER NOT HURTIN
DOGS as The Puppy Wizard teaches in HIS FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

Here's two Pauls:

Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p.DeleteThis@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsenddog.DeleteThis@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.

My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.

When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.

I will write to Amanda about the video.

I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.

Thanks again
Paul

> > =============================


Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits End
Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That
Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built
On Trust And Understanding."

Disciple Paulie Writes:

I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and
say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the
request and I bet you'll find your dog thinking
then responding everytime.

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule
applies to every aspect of the relationship with
your dog.

Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.

Paul.

========================


Paul B <panders.DeleteThis@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c638e36@clear.net.nz...

>> > "James Roberts" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> > news:3C637444.20DD6735@privacy.net...
> > I have downloaded and have read Jerry's Wit's End
> > document. Ignoring what you think of his participation,
> > what is your assessment of the merits of his
> > techniques?

Hello James,

I have used his recommended techniques and ideas with great
success, and over the period I've used these methods the more
I've become to understand and appreciate how his methods work
and how effective they can be if carried out correctly.

His manual isn't conventional and as such gets critisized and
misunderstood. The basic concept is to allow the dog to choose
whatever behaviour it wants for any situation but to distract
(and immediately praise ) it from behaviours we deem
undesirable, because of the correctly timed distractions
repeated usually about 4 times (in each location) the dog
decides of it own accord that this behaviour is undesriable
and therefore pursues something else, if that behaviour is
also inappropriate to us then we carry on distracting, very
soon the dog finds a behaviour that is mutually acceptable.

The benefits of this type of approach are numerous, Firstly we
aren't challenging the dog so there is no conflict so the dog
does't develop any possible negativity to us, the dog decides
of it own free will that a behaviour is unsatisfying so
chooses to cease it (in other words even if we are gone the
dog won't have any desire to pursue that behaviour i.e. bin
raiding etc).

I would recommend his manual.

Paul

=========================

From: Paul B (panders@zfree.co.nz) Subject: Re: Can pack
leader influence rank? Date: 2002-02-25 00:51:48 PST

I use sound to distract the dog and praise it immediately. The
reason for the immediate praise is that as soon as the dog is
distracted it's no longer thinking of the inappropriate
behaviour so the praise reinforces the "not doing" the
unwanted behaviour.

I use various sound sources, a soda can with stones in it, car
keys, Click my fingers, etc. Varying the direction of the
sound each time is important too, otherwise the dog may begin
to anticipate the sound and it will lose it's effect, if the
noise direction is random the dog won't get too familiar with
it and it will remain an effective distraction.

Remember too that we aren't trying to scare the bejesus outta
the dog, simply breaking it's train of thought while it's
thinking of the unwanted behaviour.

Sometimes you won't even see a reaction but the dog will have
been distracted fleetingly. (Recently one of my dogs started
habitually licking my feet while I was watching TV, I clicked
my fingers on her left side and told her "good girl" even
though she only paused her licking briefly, next I clicked
over her right side and praised, by about the 4th repeat she
suddenly stopped, I repeated this over a few nights and now
she doesn't lick any more, on the few occasions she absent
mindedly licks now all I do is click and praise and she
immediately stops).

Timing is important too, learn to anticipate when the dog is
thinking about doing the "dirty deed" and distract and praise
then, with any luck the dog will try again almost immediately
so distract and praise again, if the timing is correct after
about the 4th rep the dog will stop.

I could go on but this post is long enough already, remember
too that the dog isn't being a "bad dog", it's behaviour is
simply inappropriate for the circumstances.

Happy training, :-)

Paul

==========================

Subject: Re: Leadership and hieracy. And Tit For Tat...
Date: 2003-02-26 18:24:01 PST

HOWEDY Disciple Paulie,

Paul B wrote:

> I was having a discussion the other day about leadership and
> hierarchy in the home environment.

Right... dog pack, Scout Pack, family pack, military platoon,
it's all the same same same same...

> I'm a firm believer that setting the hierarchy is very
> important in order to be able to train a dog and also to
> solve behaviour problems, anxieties etc.

Right. That's HOWE COME we don't have disobedience or fighting
in the ranks.

> I think that how we behave when the dog is about whether we
> are addressing the dog or not contributes to our dogs view
> of us.

Right. That's HOWE COME the military doesn't permit
fraternization between officers and enlisted personnel. That's
HOWE COME companies have executive toilets and cafeterias and
the military has enlisted and officers and NCO'S clubs, and
families have children's play rooms, adult bedrooms, and
common areas where neither sort have priority over the HOWES
rules.

> We were discussing how a persons personality affects the way
> the dog views and respects them.

Right. That's HOWE COME food bribes USURP the handler's
authority. The dog is working for a tangible item, not respect
for the pack rules.

Bribes teach GREED, not comaraderie.

> I argued that it's no use trying to impress the dog with
> your leadership abilities if in other areas you don't show
> the same.

Right. Same same as the reasons behind restricting
fraternization.

Makes sense in business too. The rules are about the same same
same same for your dogs, kids, spouses, employee's
and employers. We must never use force fear confrontation,
or HOWER AUTHORITY to enforce HOWER WILL.

That's HOWE COME we train the come command as a conditioned
reflex, there's no choice in the matter, it's strictly reflex.
Any command can be trained as a CR, but we don't
want to do that because it would inhibit the dog's THINKING
and ability and desire to RATIONALIZE, and SOLVE PROBLEMS
and use his senses to do his job to the best of his ability.

That's not to say we don't be PALS, just that there's a
certain modicum of respect for WON another that must
always be followed to insure strict discipline and proper
authority.

THAT'S what makes for RESPECT.

IOW, we DON'T WANT TOTAL CONTROL based solely on REFLEX,
because we want the dog to WILLINGLY WANT
TO DO AS WE ASK, even if it's NOT EXXXACTLY HOWE
WE ULTIMATELY WANT HIM TO BEHAVE.

We're walking a middle line between total unthinking
response, and total COOPERATIVE EFFORT.

When cooperation fails, we reinstill HOWER authority by
pulling rank, IOW, using the come command as leverage to
subordinate the dog, and then return him to the heel or
PARTNERSHIP position, where he can start off again as a
partner, not a subordinate.

So we're DELEGATING AUTHORITY, in a sense, and
we intervene with a come command when the dog exceeds
his bounds or fails to achieve, and start over again till the
behaviors are LEARNED PUPPERLY and the dog is a
WILLING WORKER.

Then the dog will NEVER question HOWER requests,
cause to do otherWIZE would be contraWIZE, to borrow
a term from HOWER professor SCRUFF SHAKE.

> For instance lets say you do exercises etc with the
> dog to set the hierarchy and act all in control in front
> it but are disorganized, easily flustered, indecisive,
> intimidated by others, etc in other aspects of your life.

That would likely make the dog overly protective... like if
some mugger was disturbing your XYL... you'd automatically
THUMP him. HOWEver, if the XYL had TOTAL CONTROL
and showed the mugger up to be a CHUMP, you'd stand
there laughin your @$$ of at them and give her a hug when
she's finished dispatching IT.

> My view is the dog is always observing you

Every last detail. My dogs know if I take off my reading
glasses and leave my desk, I'm fixin to be away for a few
minutes and they'll follow. If I step away from my desk
wearing my glasses, I'm just goin to a file to find somethin
and return to work, so they remain where they are cause they
know I'm not goin nowhere noHOWE.

> and will see you for what you really are -

Right. Dogs are not so EZ to FOOL as PEOPLE are.

> not a worthy leader in this example despite your attempts to
> convince the dog otherwise when your are one to one.

Right. The Puppy Wizzzard tries to find the middle line, so
the dog will be concerned about what's goin on, yet not overly
concerned and still confident of their position and regard for
their leadership.

It's a delicate balance between being totally in control, and
totally out of control. That's HOWE COME dogs protect
HOWErselves.

A STRONG, IRON WILLED LEADER NEEDS NO PROTECTION. An
INTELLIGENT, FRAGILE, leader
NEEDS CONSTANT PROTECTION... so, we WANT
the dog to THINK we're AFRAID of things that go BUMP
in the nite.

We WANT HOWER dogs to believe we're delicate,
so they won't rougHOWES us.

> My observations seem to confirm this too,

INDEEDY.

> watching people with their dogs at parks etc, the more
> confident people seem to have better control of their dogs
> and better> behaved dogs than apparently less confident
> people.

Same same for military and businesses and family and
scouting...

That's HOWE COME The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
get BETTER CONTROL when their dogs are OFF LEAD,
than when they're restricted on lead.

The dog senses the TRUST and CONFIDENCE the handler
has placed on them to DO as they're REQUESTED, despite
that there's no apparent means of CORRECTING MISTAKES.
That makes the dog FEEL GOOD about working and paying
attention and DOIN as he's ASKED.

HOWEVER, WONce the dog is ORDERED to DO something, the trust
and confidence are eroded and the dog is MOORE likely to
challenge HOWER authority and will UNDOUBTEDLY fail to do the
command, cause he's gonna challenge your authority if he feels
put upon, and will be unwilling to comply, forcing the handler
to take action to regain control and ENFORCE HIS WILL.

WONce we get into a battle of the wills, the dog wins in EVERY
situation where we cannot force control.

> Not absolutely but just generally.

Well, we're talking about VERY SUBTLE effects having BIG
influences on ALL HOWER RELATIONSHIPS.

Like the chain of command in the military must never be
broken, we can establish similar rules for HOWER behavior
which will be followed by everyWON in the PACK, be it family,
dog, scouts, business, or military command.

> If I'm correct then is it possible our dogs obedience and
> behaviors etc are reflecting our self confidences?

ABSOLUTELY. Hesitating while giving commands,
waiting for the last command to be followed etc,
detract from the dog's sense of confidence in us,
and shows him we're UNCERTAIN as to HIS
willingness to FOLLOW COMMANDS, just as it
makes kids or wives or employees and employers
say "NO!"

> Paul

WONCE we learn HOWE to ESTABLISH the proper
degree of CONTROL,

HOWER charges will follow suite because it's the MOST NATURAL
THING TO DO. We NEVER QUESTION pupper
authority. HOWEver, if we go over or under, we have
FIGHTING in the ranks, MUTINY, and DESERTION.

NOW there's only TWO questions remaining: HOWE
do we instill pupper discipline without repression to
elicit 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL just
like a military unit with HOWER dogs, kids, spouses,
employee's, employer's, and governments?

AND HOWE COME The Puppy Wizzzard NEVER
FOLLOWED HIS OWN RULES HERE ON HOWER
FORUM, KNOWING FULL WELL, TO DO OTHERWIZE
WILL CERTAINLY CAUSE DISSENT, FIGHTING, HATRED, ANGER, EVEN
DEATH?

The First question is ANSWERED IN FULL in your
FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

The SECOND question is answered in reading HOWER
forum...FIGGER IT OUT. The Puppy Wizzzard came here
to IDENTIFY, EXXXPOSE, DISCREDIT, and DESTROY
the lying dog abusing Punk Thug Cowards we got here
who INTENTIONALLY HURT DOGS to ENFORCE THEIR
WILL AND WILL GLADLY KILL A BAD DOG, TO BE FAIR.

Kinda tit for tat, Disciple Paulie... It's a HARD LESSON
for SHORE, but a NECESSARY WON, given the state
of the art here abouts.

Your Puppy Wizzzard. <}TPW : ~ { >

Here's Disciple Paulie's reply to roo (alikat) when she LIED
and said The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual is DANGERHOWES and INEFFECTIVE:

"Paul B" <panders.DeleteThis@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c2ae204@clear.net.nz...

> Bollocks, the manual has no dangerous suggestions at all,
> people who find the manual useful are those that don't need
> to control a dog to satisfy their own ego but simply want a
> well behaved dog that is easy to live with.
>
> I would suggest the people who follow the advice in his
> manual are people who have already tried other inefficient
> methods and are fed up with the poor results.
>
> The more I think about the methods he suggests the more
> sense it makes, the biggest problem is people believe they
> have to be in control of the dog, tell it whats right and
> wrong, dogs don't understand our values and I don't believe
> they are capable of understanding them either, so to train
> them we use methods they understand.
>
> That means abstract training, doing sometimes what appears
> to > almost be the opposite of what makes sense to us.
>
> If you are purely result orientated then you will not find
> Jerry's manual much use, if you love your dogs and love to
> work WITH them then his manual is your dream come true.
> Distraction and praise works with any dog, when you sit back
> and really think about it, it's very obvious why.
>
> When a dog is properly distracted (and praised) of a
> particular behaviour then that behaviour very quickly
> becomes unfulfilling so the dog will no longer have any
> interest in pursuing it, whether we are about or not, thats
> the key to stopping garbage can raids and food stealing etc
> etc, no force, no bad dog, just distracting it in an
> appropriate manner that it no longer wishes to pursue that
> behaviour.
>
> Better than hiding the garbage can eh?
>
> Paul

=======================


Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?

Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbousie@clear.net.nz) Subject: Good dogs!!!
bad dogs.?? Date: 2000/10/21

Something occurred this morning that made me think how we
treat our dogs and what expectations we have of them.

Because it was a Saturday we slept in and the dogs eventually
jumped up on the bed on my wife's side. After a brief greeting
she very abruptly demanded they get down, "OFF THE BED" she
insisted, Sam looked at her perplexed, so she repeated the
"order", so Sam tried to lick her face, "GET OFF" she said
abruptly.

Sam got down but was unsure what he had done wrong. After a
bit they both came over and jumped up on my side, I patted
them etc and eventually asked them to get down, "off the bed,
good dogs" and they hopped off immediately with no prob's.

Eileen asked me why they obey me and not her so easily. I told
her they got down for me because I asked them to, they know
the command "off the bed" or "off anything" so there is no
need to demand it of them, ask them and they will comply,
demand it and they get confused because they think you are
annoyed with them but they don't know why so they try to "make
amends" which is why Sam licked her.

I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam sit
goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all, all dogs
want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they are good then
they feel an obligation to obey your request.

Telling Sam he's a good dog after he sit's apart from been too
late is also a gamble because if he doesn't sit then there's
no positive interaction.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll find your
dog thinking then responding everytime.

Paul

=======================


From: Paul B (NOSPAMpanders@zfree.co.nz) Subject: Re: Get off
the bed... please? Date: 2001-07-03 03:05:59 PST

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies to every
aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Paul.

========================


"Paul B" <someone.DeleteThis@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3edc57c5@clear.net.nz...
>
> "shaper" <nomail.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3edb6bbb@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> > I have been reading these forums for a few weeks now,
> > and am getting really confused!! but is there actually
> > anyone who has used the methods in this manual with any
> > success ?

100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL, NEARLY INSTANTLY, BY EVERY
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Student.

It's the GENTLEST, FASTEST, MOST EFFECTIVE,
NON FORCE, NON CONFRONTATIONAL, NON
BRIBE, SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL
technique in the Whole Wild World, BAR NONE.

> > I am wanting to get a rhodesian ridgeback soon and really
> > would like to know the best and most effective way of
> > training without using food treats or violence (i do agree
> > with what the guy says about food treats and violence)
> > Thanks for any intelligent replies
>
> I have tried his methods and found them extremely
> effective.There are several areas in particular I found
> useful.
>
> He teaches you and the dog to pay attention to each other
> all the time. He teaches you to have such good communication
> with your dog you don't need leash corrections or shock
> collars or even food, you can get the dogs attention any
> time you like by calling it or with a snap of your fingers.
>
> When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close to me I
> ended up going to the parks and teaching them without a lead
> at all, that ensured I had to use good communication and was
> unable to be tempted to use the lead to correct them.
>
> Another part of the training I agree with is not using the
> "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no" or react
> with it in such a way that you become involved
> in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach
> often results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you are
> about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding, counter
> surfing etc).
>
> Basically you are taught to make your dog a good friend who
> likes and wants to work for you for the pleasure of working
> for you (setting the hierarchy is included in this), teach
> it to recall reliably, then to do everything else (sit, stay
> down etc etc).
>
> Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur. If you
> understand what you are trying to achieve and are prepared
> to work with it you can get great results.
>
> Paul

===============================

> -----Original Message----- From: Don Fitz
> [mailto:donfitz69@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, 28 February
> 2003 11:53 a.m. To: Amanda.DeleteThis@DCFWatch.com;
> paulbousie.DeleteThis@clear.net.nz Subject: Jerry Howe
>
> Hi,
>
> Jerry uses your email in his posts and I was wondering what
> you have to say of his training methods.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bousie"
<paulbousie.DeleteThis@clear.net.nz> To: "'Don Fitz'"
<donfitz69.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>; <Amanda.DeleteThis@DCFWatch.com> Cc:
<jhowe2.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Jerry Howe

> If you have read the newsgroup posts then you must already
> have a good idea about what I think.
>
> His methods are the best I have come across.
>
> They aren't a quick fix but an entire training concept so
> if you aren't in for the long haul then don't bother. If
> you go his way then you have to forget all the other
> gibberish that other people spew, you have to believe in
> what you are doing, then and only then will you get the
> results.
>
> You can't combine his methods with other training methods,
> not until you understand what you are trying to achieve, and
> even then I have only ever combined about 2 other trainers
> ideas and even then just a snip of what they suggest which
> works in parallel with the Wits End concept.
>
> His methods make you as the trainer completely responsible
> for your actions, his methods make you think and work out
> your own solutions for any given situation, the default (the
> recall) is always there to get things under control again.
> His ideas and concepts teach you to work with the dog, to
> develop a team and a willingness to work together which is
> surely the best way to be. His methods don't use force or
> intimidation but they do totally emphasize the absolute
> importance of pack (family pack) structure, without that you
> can achieve almost nothing.
>
> If you are wondering how a dog can be trained without any
> negativity the answer lies in the recall, anytime your dog
> doesn't follow through with a request you call him / her to
> you, since the recall is the first thing taught and it is
> taught in such a way it becomes a reflex the dog always
> returns to you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and
> we release it by asking for a "heel" which is an "equal"
> position.
>
> His methods are very good, his understanding of dogs is
> excellent, I recommend his methods.
>
> Paul Bousie

==============================

"Linda" <llindaleedaniel.DeleteThis@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3c317fe4.0302091951.7215c6f7@posting.google.com...

I have posted about my dog Sunshine before who was aggressive
to all people and dogs until I found and used the Wits End
Training methods.

He is now great--can go any where and he is fine with people
and dog even when they get in his face on a flexi lead! He
still had problem with stress that was making him scratch him
self raw in places--he nose has had a sore for the last month.

We started using the Doggy Do Right and his nose was almost
healed when the machine went off. The next day he was
scratching and opened the sore on his nose again.

Twelve hours after I turned it back on he quit scratching and
his nose is healing again. The machine does work.

I have two barking dogs behind me that have reduced their
barking a lot. In fact when we were out walking one them came
over to visit and the owner did not notice he was gone since
he did not bark at us as he usually did.

The Wits End Training Method works, the problems I have had
are the result I having trouble breaking my old patterns.

My dog got it fast but kept getting confused when I had
trouble getting the commands together. I always thought I
used praise but I really did not until I started using the
Wits End Method of sound and praise. In the past it took a lot
of treats to get him to do something--now I have been able to
teach him several things like pull the laundry basket with
just praise. He really likes it better I think and does not
seem to miss the treats for jobs.

If you have problem with your dog try the Wits End Method--it
is free and it works and it improves your relationship. So
much of dog training is force and using pain to get a dog to
do something that a method that works and does not rely on
pain, force, or "corrections" is wonderful for both owner and
dog. Don't think something that is free can not be good
because I have spent more hours and more thousands of dollars
than I though possible in the three years with Sunshine and
nothing helped until I found the Wits End Method of sound and
praise.

==================================


--- Original Message ----- From: Paul Bousie To: The Puppy
Wizard Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:00 AM Subject: Geday.


Hey J,

I see nothings changed on the NG. Still the same old crappy
advice and misunderstanding of the only advice worth reading.

The problem with your method J is that I can't answer the
questions on the NG no more, people are after a quick fix,
they don't want to understand that dog training requires a
disiplined method, I'm now really understanding that they are
all result orientated, they want the dog to sit, to down, to
stay, to come, to stop it's "bad" behaviours, they want to
stamp out each anxiety one at a time not realising they create
a new one as they deal with the last.

I feel sorry for them, they don't understand, they don't even
realise the errors of thier ways and they arn't self thinkers,
they follow the majority, after all if everyone says thats the
way then it must be. I've finally realised people don't want
to learn to train dogs they want a trained dog, they want a
little puppet that sits and stays and downs and does all the
nice doggy stuff or so they think, then when the dog acts like
a dog they come squealing to the NG asking how to stop the dog
being a dog.

I have a nice little visulisation of a dogs mind that I think
demonstrates the way we approach dog training. Imagine lots of
little circles all in a cluster, each one representing a dog
anxiety or behaviour ( desied or not), each circle represents
something about the dog, all of them create what a dog is.

The traditional way to train a dog is to stamp out the "bad"
circles, try to eliminate as many as you can, problem is each
one you stamp out another takes it's place (anxiety circles
can't be destroyed they just change), obviously it's a futile
exercise, but thats the traditional way.

Now imagine a big circle that completely surrounds all the
small circles, this big circle is the whole dog, that's what
we get hold of with all the little circles inside, we don't
see the little circles we see the BIG circle the macro as you
put it and use that to train.

I laugh now when I see posts critisising you, they are
critising something they don't even understand or even have
the capacity to understand.

See ya,

Paul

=====================


HOWEDY Disciple Paulie,

"Paul B" <abcde.DeleteThis@clear.net.nz> wrote in message
news:3fffd5ba@clear.net.nz...
>
> "culprit" <kelly_marsops.DeleteThis@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:btnkbk$9a35v$1@ID-58739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > so you trust someone you know nothing about,

Sez a certified MENTAL CASE...

> > someone you found on the internet,

Like HOWE you fHOWEND The Puppy Wizard, eh Disciple Paulie?

> > more than a professional dog trainer?

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

She means a professional DOG ABUSER.

> > how odd.

Ain't it QUEER.

> > -kelly

BWEEEAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> Not odd really, if you trust your instincts and have the
> confidence to try some thing that you believe in and can
> relate to.

Oh? Well THAT'S the PROBLEM here abHOWETS
Disciple Paulie. We got LIARS DOG ABUSERS
THUGS PUNKS COWARDS and MENTAL CASES
who WANT to HURT and KILL dogs and get HOWET
callin THAT, trainin.

> I tried 4 pro trainers,

Yeah... didn't do much good. Your dogs had a boatload of
problems when we first met here.

> non of them "connected" with me, I found more "direction" on
> the net than any trainer provided me,

That's on accHOWENT of there ain't no other trainer who's got
a proven effective method, EXXXCEPT The Puppy Wizard.

> I learnt to think through my own solutions and
> learnt to really communicate with the dogs, the pro trainers
> were really only interested in getting "results"

And THAT'S HOWE COME their dogs FLUNK 10%
of the time, MINIMUM, GUARANTEED. See The
Puppy Wizard's post "Misbehavior Of Organisms."
That'll EXXXPLAIN HOWE COME the BEHAVIORISTS
can't TRAIN a critter CONSISTENTLY 100% EFFECTIVELY
and withHOWET HURTIN THEM.

> so I'd think my hard earned cash was well spent,

When you first met The Puppy Wizard your dogs were escaping
your yard and doin lots of stuff you needed to work on.

> where as on the Net I learnt to think things through and
> achieve a communication with the dogs.

And nHOWE you NEVER got to tell them NO.

> It doesn't matter that you know nothing about
> someone, if you you have half a brain

Well that'd be overly generHOWES here abHOWETS.

> what you read of them will soon tell you if they know their
> subject.

Let's talk abHOWET SAR dogs and lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn's past history of RETIRING her
SAR dog before ever WORKIN in SAR cause SHE
HURT HER DOG and he got WIZE to the fact that
she could HURT him in the ring where he got high
scores but COULDN'T HURT HIM on a REAL LIFE
SAR site cause she doesn't know where the FIND
is so she don't know WHEN TO HURT HIM.

> Paul

The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
 >> Stay informed about: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! 
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Pat

External


Since: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs, others (more info?)

My daughter has 2 females and they do great together. They stay in a crate,
probably about 6 hours while she works. I wouldn't worry too much if I were
you. I have a chi puppy, 4 months, and he is a doll. We also have a two
jack russell terriers that are older and they all get along great.

--
Pat
ampscamp.DeleteThis@att.net

Blessed are the flexible......
for they shall not be bent out of shape.

"Marulira" <marita.DeleteThis@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
news:8211d71f.0402231100.4c7e94eb@posting.google.com...
> We're looking to get a Chihuahua and have come across 2 1.5YO dogs who
> are incredibly sweet. They seem to be in excellent health (I will get
> them checked by a vet if I decide to get one or both). My concerns:
>
> We were looking to get only 1 dog. We plan to expand on our dog
> family in another couple of years but I wanted to start with 1 now.
> Since these two little guys have been together all along, is it cruel
> of me to separate them? The owner is willing to either way though she
> would prefer it if they went together. My SO feels that since we will
> be getting another one down the road, why not get two now? Both of us
> work so the dog will be by himself about 8 hour a day (except for the
> company of a very talkative cockatiel). Both these dogs have been in
> a similar situation since the owner is gone most of the day and
> returns only in the evening. But at least they had each other for
> company...Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> M
 >> Stay informed about: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! 
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The Puppy Wizard

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 3494



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 1 Chihuahua or 2 - Advice needed, please! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs, others (more info?)

HOWEDY pat,

"Pat" <ampscamp RemoveThis @att.net> wrote in message
news:JNv_b.79870$hR.1640626@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> My daughter has 2 females and they do great together.

INDEED? That's curiHOWES.

> They stay in a crate, probably about 6 hours
> while she works.

Ain't that cunnin.
From: Pat (ampscamp@att.net)
Subject: Re: Need help with crying puppy please
Date: 2002-03-05 13:55:23 PST

I agree with Christy that the pup shouldn't be put
into the crate too much. But, I have had luck with
covering the crate with a towel or blanket where
the dog can't see out. It seems this helps them to
settle down. Also put the crate where the pup can't
see you. I think it is natural for them to want to be
out with you when they can see you.
--
Pat
ampscamp RemoveThis @att.net


> I wouldn't worry too much if I were you.
> I have a chi puppy, 4 months, and he is a doll.

IT'D better be, or you'll HURT IT.

> We also have a two jack russell terriers that
> are older and they all get along great.


From: Pat (ampscamp@att.net)
Subject: Re: help! mad barking while chasing tail
Date: 2003-05-12 14:39:40 PST

A trainer I know uses Binaca breath spray to
stop a lot of bad habits. Try telling her/him to
stop and if he doesn't, spray the Binaca in his
direction. I don't know if it will help but it won't
hurt to try. Good luck.
--
Pat
ampscamp RemoveThis @att.net

> --
> Pat
> ampscamp RemoveThis @att.net

BWEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Blessed are the flexible......
> for they shall not be bent out of shape.

Not to worry! The Puppy Wizard SPECIALIZES
in the impossible. The Puppy Wizard is bendin
you dog abusers like a pretzle.

HOWEDY People!

Here we are AGAIN, discussing HURTING
dogs on pronged choke collars.

We've been through this twenty ways to the middle,
and STILL, our pronged choke collar fans CONTINUE
telling you to put a pronged choke collar around your
dogs neck and GENTLY control him... with dozens of
spikes digging into his throat to "ENHANCE the BOND"
between "trainer" and dog, as our friend cindy moore
likes to say.

Our "experts" who tell us to HURT dogs to train them,
ALSO tell us to KILL dogs we can't HURT ENOUGH
to make them "respect" the "authority" of our expert trainers.

READ THE THREAD "interested in hearing," where our "expert" janet
boss overlooked TWO shock containment devices that made the little
dog aggressive. Her advice was to jerk and choke the dog on a
pronged choke collar whenever they have visitors and to lock him
in a crate anytime they can't sufficiently jerk and choke him, to
make him FRI