Welcome to PetForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Cheap, empty symbolism

 
Goto page 1, 2
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Animals Rights RSS
Next:  28 Mexican Officials Charged in Illegal Hunting S..  
Author Message
Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:53 pm
Post subject: Cheap, empty symbolism
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

"veganism", the mandatory dietary expression of "animal
rights" believers, is a simple rule: "don't consume
animal parts." "vegans" freely admit that it is a
purely symbolic gesture: their refraining from eating
meat for so-called "ethical" reasons makes no
meaningful difference in the fact of meat eating for
the overwhelming majority of people who are in fact
meat eaters. "vegans" are a tiny minority within a
tiny minority: strict vegetarians (no animal products
of any kind) are already a very small minority, no more
than 2% of the U.S. population, and "vegans" - those
who are strictly vegetarian for so-called "ethical"
reasons, as opposed to health reasons, are but a small
minority within that (at most) 2%. "veganism" does not
make a difference.

Then there is the issue of animal collateral deaths in
agriculture. Battered, bloody, kicking and screaming,
"vegans" eventually get around to acknowledging that
CDs are a real phenomenon, and that "vegans" are
causative to them. It is suggested to "vegans" that,
in order to be morally consistent, they should refrain
from consuming *any* produce the production of which
causes consequence-free CDs. They all refuse.

Refraining from CD-causing produce also would be a
purely symbolic gesture. Just as the "vegans'"
abstention from meat produces no detectable impact on
the meat industry, so their abstention from CD-causing
produce would have no meaningful impact on the methods
used to produce vegetables for the overwhelmingly
larger group of omnivores. So, why do "vegans" engage
in one empty, purely symbolic gesture, but not in the
other?

The obvious reason is cost. It would be tremendously
difficult and expensive to find sources of vegetables
that don't cause CDs, while it is absurdly easy and
cheap to abstain from meat.

What we see, then, is that "vegans" are not at all
interested in moral consistency. What interests them
is cheap, convenient, self-flattering symbolism. As
long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic
gesture in which they can engage that they feel allows
them to look down their noses at those who don't
believe the rubbish they believe, that's good enough.

"veganism" is not an ethical action. It's an empty
pose struck by people who are deeply morally confused.

 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:53 pm
Post subject: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jonathan Ball wrote:

<snip>
> As long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic gesture
> in which they can engage that they feel allows them to look down their
> noses at those who don't believe the rubbish they believe, that's good
> enough.

Why do you have such low self-esteem and such a sense of worthlessness,
jonnie? (Not that it isn't richly deserved -- perhaps you just can't
lie to yourself with as much empty conviction as you lie to others.)

Notice how all these Antis demonstrate their deep sense of inferiority
and guilt. They're all terrified and resentful towards people who
are actually acting on principle, with conviction, and with a sense
of self-worth. The Antis are all quivering creatures, cowering in a
(well-deserved) sense that they are not living up to their obligations
as human beings. They hate ARAs because they THINK ARAs look down on
them. It's projecting: they KNOW they are inferior and morally
bankrupt, they are terriby afraid someone will find them out (we do,
of course) and they lash out in a preemptive strike against those they
see as their betters.

Well, guess what? We ARE your betters. Get used to it.

Rat
<snip>

 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dutch

External


Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1110



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Rat & Swan" <labrat.DeleteThis@cybermesa.com> wrote

> They hate ARAs because they THINK ARAs look down on them. It's projecting:

-and-

> Well, guess what? We ARE your betters. Get used to it.

You can't have it both ways Rat. Either we're projecting, or you are
actually looking down on us. Which statement do you wish to retract?
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Karen Winter indeed suffers from low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rat & Swan wrote:

>
>
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> As long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic gesture in which
>> they can engage that they feel allows them to look down their noses at
>> those who don't believe the rubbish they believe, that's good enough.
>
>
> Why do you have such low self-esteem and such a sense of worthlessness,
> jonnie?

I don't. It's obvious that you do, and you are
emblematic for all "vegans". We KNOW that you have
lived your entire life as a low achiever. You couldn't
even muster yourself to raise one child. You've worked
a succession of loser, dead-end, low-paid, low-skill
jobs. It's no wonder you suffer from low self-esteem.

If I were as low achieving as you, I think would have
killed myself 30 years ago.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 90



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Rat & Swan" <labrat.DeleteThis@cybermesa.com> wrote in message news:bvektg$i8l$1@reader2.nmix.net...
>
>
> Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > As long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic gesture
> > in which they can engage that they feel allows them to look down their
> > noses at those who don't believe the rubbish they believe, that's good
> > enough.
>
> Why do you have such low self-esteem and such a sense of worthlessness,
> jonnie? (Not that it isn't richly deserved -- perhaps you just can't
> lie to yourself with as much empty conviction as you lie to others.)
>
> Notice how all these Antis demonstrate their deep sense of inferiority
> and guilt. They're all terrified and resentful towards people who
> are actually acting on principle, with conviction, and with a sense
> of self-worth. The Antis are all quivering creatures, cowering in a
> (well-deserved) sense that they are not living up to their obligations
> as human beings. They hate ARAs because they THINK ARAs look down on
> them. It's projecting: they KNOW they are inferior and morally
> bankrupt, they are terriby afraid someone will find them out (we do,
> of course) and they lash out in a preemptive strike against those they
> see as their betters.
>
> Well, guess what? We ARE your betters. Get used to it.
>
> Rat

Gets a rah rah from me!
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Dutch

External


Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1110



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam.RemoveThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:101llttovsrva31@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Rat & Swan" <labrat.RemoveThis@cybermesa.com> wrote in message
news:bvektg$i8l$1@reader2.nmix.net...
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Ball wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > As long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic gesture
> > > in which they can engage that they feel allows them to look down their
> > > noses at those who don't believe the rubbish they believe, that's good
> > > enough.
> >
> > Why do you have such low self-esteem and such a sense of worthlessness,
> > jonnie? (Not that it isn't richly deserved -- perhaps you just can't
> > lie to yourself with as much empty conviction as you lie to others.)
> >
> > Notice how all these Antis demonstrate their deep sense of inferiority
> > and guilt. They're all terrified and resentful towards people who
> > are actually acting on principle, with conviction, and with a sense
> > of self-worth. The Antis are all quivering creatures, cowering in a
> > (well-deserved) sense that they are not living up to their obligations
> > as human beings. They hate ARAs because they THINK ARAs look down on
> > them. It's projecting: they KNOW they are inferior and morally
> > bankrupt, they are terriby afraid someone will find them out (we do,
> > of course) and they lash out in a preemptive strike against those they
> > see as their betters.
> >
> > Well, guess what? We ARE your betters. Get used to it.
> >
> > Rat
>
> Gets a rah rah from me!

She claims we're just projecting, then proves the reverse. That's pretty
typical ARA logic, figures you'd like it.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
I R Canuck

External


Since: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Karen Winter indeed suffers from low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jonathan Ball" <jonball DeleteThis @whitehouse.not> wrote in message news:QGASb.3782$F23.1@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Rat & Swan wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Ball wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >> As long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic gesture in which
> >> they can engage that they feel allows them to look down their noses at
> >> those who don't believe the rubbish they believe, that's good enough.
> >
> >
> > Why do you have such low self-esteem and such a sense of worthlessness,
> > jonnie?
>
> I don't. It's obvious that you do, and you are
> emblematic for all "vegans". We KNOW that you have
> lived your entire life as a low achiever. You couldn't
> even muster yourself to raise one child. You've worked
> a succession of loser, dead-end, low-paid, low-skill
> jobs. It's no wonder you suffer from low self-esteem.
>
> If I were as low achieving as you, I think would have
> killed myself 30 years ago.

That would have saved a lot of animals.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Karen Winter indeed suffers from low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I R Canuck wrote:

> "Jonathan Ball" <jonball.TakeThisOut@whitehouse.not> wrote in message news:QGASb.3782$F23.1@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>Rat & Swan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Jonathan Ball wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>As long as there is some low-cost and easy symbolic gesture in which
>>>>they can engage that they feel allows them to look down their noses at
>>>>those who don't believe the rubbish they believe, that's good enough.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why do you have such low self-esteem and such a sense of worthlessness,
>>>jonnie?
>>
>>I don't. It's obvious that you do, and you are
>>emblematic for all "vegans". We KNOW that you have
>>lived your entire life as a low achiever. You couldn't
>>even muster yourself to raise one child. You've worked
>>a succession of loser, dead-end, low-paid, low-skill
>>jobs. It's no wonder you suffer from low self-esteem.
>>
>>If I were as low achieving as you, I think would have
>>killed myself 30 years ago.
>
>
> That would have saved a lot of animals.

Nope.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
I R Canuck

External


Since: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jonathan Ball" <jonball.TakeThisOut@whitehouse.not> wrote in message news:JKASb.3786$F23.1570@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> and that's only because you aren't legally
> blind, as it is.

Excuse me? Is there any necessary reason for insulting
a group of disabled individuals? I know legally blind individuals
who could easily be considered your better!

You sir are an ass!
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy among "vegans" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I R Canuck wrote:

> "Jonathan Ball" <jonball.TakeThisOut@whitehouse.not> wrote in message news:JKASb.3786$F23.1570@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>and that's only because you aren't legally
>>blind, as it is.
>
>
> Excuse me? Is there any necessary reason for insulting
> a group of disabled individuals?

Merely for being disabled? No; but that's not what I
was doing. I was insulting Karen's, erm, "partner",
who has had a singularly filthy reaction to her man
disabilities.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dutch wrote:

> "Rat & Swan" <labrat.DeleteThis@cybermesa.com> wrote
>
>
>>They hate ARAs because they THINK ARAs look down on them. It's projecting:
>
>
> -and-
>
>
>>Well, guess what? We ARE your betters. Get used to it.
>
>
> You can't have it both ways Rat. Either we're projecting, or you are
> actually looking down on us. Which statement do you wish to retract?

"because I didn't abandon my son." She needs to
retract that one; she DID abandon her son. That ugly
gut-spilling the other day confirms it.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jonathan Ball

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 869



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

This is a pretty funny subject line. It so CLEARLY
applies to "vegans" and "aras", and in fact it EXPLAINS
them. The sort of person who turns to a weird,
irrational creed like "animal rights" and its silly
dietary expression "veganism" suffer from extremely low
self esteem in the most laughably obvious way. They
adopt an arrogant moral stance - a mere pose - as a way
of trying, desperately, to enhance their self esteem.
That it appears to work in their own minds is merely a
measure of how deeply disturbed they are.

I can't think of a single other emotional trait of
"vegans" that leaps out at the observer more than their
crushingly low self esteem.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
usual suspect

External


Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 354



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

degeneRat wrote:
<snip>
> Notice how all these Antis demonstrate their deep sense of inferiority
> and guilt.

Where? The only guilt-addled people here are the veg-n activists who
lament animal deaths while eating a diet that contributes to tremendous
animal death and suffering. You're not only saddled with guilt, you're
hypocritical.

> They're all terrified and resentful towards people who
> are actually acting on principle, with conviction,

What principles and convictions? "Don't eat animal parts." The result of
your diet is still animal casualties. Hypocrite.

> and with a sense of self-worth.

What's your self-worth? Abandoned child, a string of failed marriages,
schismatic at church, siphoning off your homosexual partner's
inheritance, and washing cats... not much to be proud of.

> The Antis are all quivering creatures, cowering in a
> (well-deserved) sense that they are not living up to their obligations
> as human beings.

What about your obligations as a vegan activist? Why are you still
eating commercially-prepared foods?

> They hate ARAs because they THINK ARAs look down on
> them. It's projecting: they KNOW they are inferior and morally
> bankrupt, they are terriby afraid someone will find them out (we do,
> of course) and they lash out in a preemptive strike against those they
> see as their betters.
>
> Well, guess what? We ARE your betters.

*You* are not. Pretty safe bet that none of us has ever abandoned a
child for a life of washing stray animals and rampant homosexuality.

> Get used to it.

We're already used to your brazen deceit and rank hypocrisy.
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
usual suspect

External


Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 354



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:31 am
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I R Canuck wrote:
>>and that's only because you aren't legally
>>blind, as it is.
>
> Excuse me? Is there any necessary reason for insulting
> a group of disabled individuals? I know legally blind individuals
> who could easily be considered your better!

He wasn't speaking of an entire group, just one individual.

<snip>
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Rat & Swan

External


Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 313



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: Low self-esteem and envy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

usual suspect wrote:
> I R Canuck wrote:

<snip>
>> Excuse me? Is there any necessary reason for insulting
>> a group of disabled individuals? I know legally blind individuals
>> who could easily be considered your better!

Including my partner, who is one of them!

Hell-- ANYBODY's jonnie's better. My partner has a lot more
to recommend her than simply being jonnie's better.

<snip>
Rat
 >> Stay informed about: Cheap, empty symbolism 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Pet Problems (Home) -> Animals Rights All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page 1, 2
Page 1 of 2

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]