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Next: The lonely dog?
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External
Since: Apr 05, 2007
Posts: 907
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:39 am
Post subject: Cats and Dogs
Archived from groups: rec>pets>dogs>behavior (more info?)
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Just thinking out loud. Possibly worrying for no good reason. But....
We're visiting ELB over the weekend. He now has 7 or 8 cats (I've lost
count). I'm not worried at all about Pan, since she's lived with cats and
ferrets, and play bows to bunnies. But, she's the *ultimate* follower, and
may decide to join trouble.
Trouble is named Khan. His original paperwork from the SPCA said that he
spent time in the executive director's office, "nuzzling kitties". He has
met some friends' cats but that was 3+ years ago, and while he gets really
excited, and pokes his nose into cat to inhale deeply (weird!) if they sit
still, he'll chase any cats that run. Not with malice, I don't think, more
curiosity than anything else (body language is ears up, tail up and wagging,
whining). One of my brother's cats is neurologically impaired, and has poor
motor coordination/eyesight, etc. I am worried that a cat that's staggering
around like a drunk and does not know to command proper respect from dogs is
likely to become a target.
So, the plan is to introduce the dogs and cats, one at a time. Since Pan is
likely to go 'What cats?', we'll take her first, and then bring in Khan.
Mr. Squirt Bottle will be present when those introductions are made, in case
the fuzzy one thinks that cats are for dinner. Both dogs will be on leash
when they are introduced.
Is it reasonable to assume that a dog that was cat safe will remain cat safe
although he hasn't lived with them in oh, 6 years? Is it okay to put Khan
in a down-stay and bring the cats for him to sniff, or otherwise have them
approach? Do we bother with a food reward when he behaves appropriately, or
just pretend it's no big deal?
Our dogs will be confined to our room at night, and will be separated by
baby gates when we're out during the day and can't supervise them. ELB says
that his dogs will chase cats or cats will chase dogs when either party gets
bored, but 4 dogs = pack (even if one of them barely qualifies as a dog),
and I don't know how likely that is to modify behvior.
Suja |
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Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 1456
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Suja wrote:
> Is it reasonable to assume that a dog that was cat safe will remain cat safe
> although he hasn't lived with them in oh, 6 years?
I don't think there's any way to guess how he'll react to new,
strange cats. Dogs don't always generalize well, &ct. Even if he
*lived* with cats, he might react badly to them on a given day under
certain circumstances.
FWIW, Harriet is usually pretty good with Pandora. Strange cats,
though, are another matter. She thinks they are a new flavor of
bunny, and will chase them both indoors and out, if allowed.
> Is it okay to put Khan
> in a down-stay and bring the cats for him to sniff, or otherwise have them
> approach? Do we bother with a food reward when he behaves appropriately, or
> just pretend it's no big deal?
I would use whatever words and/or treats best communicate to him
that his actions (or lack thereof) were desirable. If that's food,
then use food.
> Our dogs will be confined to our room at night, and will be separated by
> baby gates when we're out during the day and can't supervise them.
Good plan. If the dogs and cats aren't going to be left alone
together, and your dogs are generally either disinterested or
willing to take direction from you when presented with cats, then I
would assume things will be fine.
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther) |
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Shelly" <shelly.RemoveThis@cat-sidh.net> wrote in message:
> I don't think there's any way to guess how he'll react to new,
> strange cats.
I thought it was a good sign he was cohabitating with cats he hadn't known
from puppyhood, and has never tried to eat any of the friends' cats. He is
SUPER interested in cats. At the vet's, if he sees a cat carrier (sans
cat), he wants to sniff it, and will spend considerable amount of time with
his head in there, if allowed. He will approach cat carriers with cats in
it too, but will back off if hissed at (we always get permission, of
course). Even otherwise dog friendly cats don't always want a big, fuzzy
beast approaching them when they're feeling trapped, I guess.
> FWIW, Harriet is usually pretty good with Pandora. Strange cats,
> though, are another matter. She thinks they are a new flavor of
> bunny, and will chase them both indoors and out, if allowed.
I didn't know that. Did your cats pre-date Harriet's arrival? I wonder if
that makes a difference.
> I would use whatever words and/or treats best communicate to him
> that his actions (or lack thereof) were desirable. If that's food,
> then use food.
I was worried about having him make some sort of cats = food association,
hence the question. I don't want to make an already overstimulated dog go
completely over the edge.
> Good plan. If the dogs and cats aren't going to be left alone
> together, and your dogs are generally either disinterested or
> willing to take direction from you when presented with cats, then I
> would assume things will be fine.
I'm going to be optimistic and take a camera along, hoping for the best. As
long as everyone comes through unscathed, I'll be happy.
BTW, ELB and SIL aren't the least bit concerned, especially about the neuro
kitty (aka Psycho Kitty, aka Sybil) She's apparently sweet one minute,
psychotic the next, so all other critters give her the wide berth.
Suja >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Suja wrote:
> I thought it was a good sign he was cohabitating with cats he hadn't known
> from puppyhood, and has never tried to eat any of the friends' cats.
It is! It's just not a guarantee that he will be good with unknown
cats.
> He is
> SUPER interested in cats. At the vet's, if he sees a cat carrier (sans
> cat), he wants to sniff it, and will spend considerable amount of time with
> his head in there, if allowed. He will approach cat carriers with cats in
> it too, but will back off if hissed at (we always get permission, of
> course).
He sounds more curious than dangerous, to me.
> Even otherwise dog friendly cats don't always want a big, fuzzy
> beast approaching them when they're feeling trapped, I guess.
Heh. Once, when I had Rory at the vet, a little spaniely dog poked
his nose into the mesh of the carrier door. Rory calmly leaned
forward and gently kronshed on it. Shocked the poor dog and cracked
me the hell up. Neither animal was being malicious. The pup was
curious and that was one of the ways Rory showed affection to "his"
dogs.
> I didn't know that. Did your cats pre-date Harriet's arrival? I wonder if
> that makes a difference.
Some of them did, but she was also fine with Rory, who did not
pre-date her. It seems to be a "of my tribe" vs. "not of my tribe"
issue, at least for the dogs I've had.
> I was worried about having him make some sort of cats = food association,
> hence the question. I don't want to make an already overstimulated dog go
> completely over the edge.
I wouldn't be concerned about that. Khan isn't going to confuse a
treat with prey, assuming he ends up thinking of the cats as prey.
> I'm going to be optimistic and take a camera along, hoping for the best. As
> long as everyone comes through unscathed, I'll be happy.
Yes, peechurs, please!
> BTW, ELB and SIL aren't the least bit concerned, especially about the neuro
> kitty (aka Psycho Kitty, aka Sybil) She's apparently sweet one minute,
> psychotic the next, so all other critters give her the wide berth.
It sounds like she can take care of herself. Tell Khan to mind his
eyes, as they are tender and claws beat skin.
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther) >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Shelly" <shelly.RemoveThis@cat-sidh.net> wrote in message:
> He sounds more curious than dangerous, to me.
That's how I see it, although I'm not sure that isn't going to get him to
trouble. One of my friends has two cats. One is this fluffy, regal thing,
and it walks around like it owns the place (also beats up dogs that it lives
with). When Khan came in, he was sitting on the kitchen counter with his
tail dangling down, and Khan sniffed the tail and moved on, while the cat
pretended that he hadn't actually seen or been sniffed at by a new dog. The
other one is a little shy kitty, and it darted behind the couch. Khan was
determined to get to it, and decided to stick his head under the couch, and
try to upend it. He may have succeeded, except a couple of us humans
decided to play bad guy and sat on the couch.
SIL has two shy kitties. I'm pretty sure she'll object strenuously to
having her furniture rearranged for her.
> Rory calmly leaned
> forward and gently kronshed on it.
^^^^^^^^
New word. He crunched on the dog's nose? That'd be funny. How did the
owner react?
> Some of them did, but she was also fine with Rory, who did not
> pre-date her. It seems to be a "of my tribe" vs. "not of my tribe"
> issue, at least for the dogs I've had.
I've seen that. Lately, I've been meeting dogs that are more Pan-like.
Cat? What cat? Makes it easier to figure out dogsitting arrangements.
> I wouldn't be concerned about that. Khan isn't going to confuse a
> treat with prey, assuming he ends up thinking of the cats as prey.
Yeah, he's more likely to draw straight lines. We all know that thinking
ain't his strong suit.
> Yes, peechurs, please!
There's something Khan can do - herd all the cats so we can take a group
picture. We'll hopefully get some good ones. I still have a ton of
pictures I haven't downloaded from the past two dog sitting assignments.
> It sounds like she can take care of herself. Tell Khan to mind his
> eyes, as they are tender and claws beat skin.
Left up to his own devices, he'd dash madly into whatever, and come out with
stuff sticking all over him. We have to be so careful with his eyes,
because he's rather reckless, and doesn't seem to realize that getting poked
in the eye is not a good thing. I'm just going to see if he can keep
himself from annoying cats to that extent.
Suja >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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Since: May 06, 2007
Posts: 716
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Posts: 1033
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Shelly" wrote:
> It seems to be a "of my tribe" vs. "not of my tribe" issue, at least for
> the dogs I've had.
That's how it's been with my dogs, although I think I'd've used the word
"pack" rather than "tribe". <G> Every dog I've ever had, including Rocsi,
has gotten on just fine with the cats that LIVE here (aside from occasional
friendly teasing on one side or another), but has chased any cat *not* of
the pack - however, not with any intent to do harm, just to see the intruder
off.
With the semi-feral "barn" cats at Bob's place (he inherited them from his
mother, who was a borderline collector), the dogs behave in a friendly
fashion with the ones that hang around the door and don't run, but want to
chase the ones that *do* run. With the three that live indoors, they behave
the same way they do with mine. >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 270
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Shelly wrote:
<snip>
> It sounds like she can take care of herself. Tell Khan to mind his
> eyes, as they are tender and claws beat skin.
>
Zane says, "Be careful of the kitties because they carry *knives*. When
in doubt, scream like a little girl and run away." >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Kathleen" <khhfmdeletethis.TakeThisOut@charter.net> wrote in message:
> Zane says, "Be careful of the kitties because they carry *knives*.
Always good to know. I'll be sure to pass that message along.
> When
> in doubt, scream like a little girl and run away."
NEVAH! Manly dogs don't scream like little girls. The running away part
however, they can do.
Suja >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 270
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Suja wrote:
> "Kathleen" <khhfmdeletethis RemoveThis @charter.net> wrote in message:
>
>
>>Zane says, "Be careful of the kitties because they carry *knives*.
>
>
> Always good to know. I'll be sure to pass that message along.
>
>
>>When
>>in doubt, scream like a little girl and run away."
>
>
> NEVAH! Manly dogs don't scream like little girls. The running away part
> however, they can do.
No, the screaming is non-negotiable. You have to do the screaming. If
you don't scream you can't freak out the kitty and you can't make mom's
head explode because after hearing a noise like that she fully expects
to see your eyeball hanging out of its' socket on a string. >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Shelly" <scouvrette.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message:
> The more I learn about Khan, the more he reminds me of Elliott. Bless
> his heart.
Two VERY special bears, no doubt. What really gets me is that people who
don't know him really well think of Khan as this majestic dog, when he's
more like a doofus doggie.
> Probably! But Khan *does* take direction pretty well, right?
Oh yeah. Except when it comes to the fox. Thank goodness cats aren't
foxes, or we'd be in deep trouble.
> You may
> have to watch him like a hawk, but as long as he will listen to you,
> when you tell him to mind his Ps and Qs, I think the furniture
> rearranging should be minimal.
Let's hope so. I think that 8 cats might be a bit much, but it might also
keep him distracted enough so he doesn't pester any one cat
> Rory really
> liked Elliott. Elliott was not so impressed with Rory's demonstrations
> of affection, but he was very gentlemanly about accepting them.
What a good dog! I'm not sure what my two would do - actually, Pan would
scream like a girl and run away, probably.
> Well, hop to it, missy! If you don't, I'll be forced to post more
> photos of Harriet drooling, which would gross out Montana and Jenny,
> and we can't have that, can we?
Speaking of drool, Pan blew a quadruple bubble. Okay, so it was two bubbles
on each side, but still pretty impressive. No camera on hand,
unfortunately.
> Oh, I *do* adore Khan, bless his heart.
What's not to like? Act first, think later.
Suja >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Suja" <spanaval DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fSRgi.173087$dC2.20536@newsfe13.lga:
> The other one is a little shy kitty, and it darted behind the
> couch. Khan was determined to get to it, and decided to stick his
> head under the couch, and try to upend it. He may have succeeded,
> except a couple of us humans decided to play bad guy and sat on
> the couch.
The more I learn about Khan, the more he reminds me of Elliott. Bless
his heart.
> SIL has two shy kitties. I'm pretty sure she'll object
> strenuously to having her furniture rearranged for her.
Probably! But Khan *does* take direction pretty well, right? You may
have to watch him like a hawk, but as long as he will listen to you,
when you tell him to mind his Ps and Qs, I think the furniture
rearranging should be minimal.
>> Rory calmly leaned
>> forward and gently kronshed on it.
> ^^^^^^^^
> New word. He crunched on the dog's nose? That'd be funny. How
> did the owner react?
<http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/the-delicatest-.html>
<http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/06/what-shes-just-.html>
Anyway, a kronsch is a delicate little nibble. Rory used to kronsch
Elliott's nose, which was hysterically funny. He'd gently grab Elliott
by the head, a paw on either side of his face, and slowly and
deliberately bite his nose. Not hard, mind you. He also used to grab
Elliott's head, then rub his face all over it, marking it. Rory really
liked Elliott. Elliott was not so impressed with Rory's demonstrations
of affection, but he was very gentlemanly about accepting them.
As for the dog at the vet's office, I think he was shocked. He backed
away and didn't bother Rory again, which was fine with me. I didn't
notice how the owner reacted. If she didn't like her dog's nose being
nibbled, then she should've minded him a little more carefully.
> There's something Khan can do - herd all the cats so we can take a
> group picture. We'll hopefully get some good ones. I still have
> a ton of pictures I haven't downloaded from the past two dog
> sitting assignments.
Well, hop to it, missy! If you don't, I'll be forced to post more
photos of Harriet drooling, which would gross out Montana and Jenny,
and we can't have that, can we?
> Left up to his own devices, he'd dash madly into whatever, and
> come out with stuff sticking all over him.
Oh, I *do* adore Khan, bless his heart.
> We have to be so careful with his eyes, because he's rather
> reckless, and doesn't seem to realize that getting poked in the
> eye is not a good thing.
Doggles. Just sayin'...
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther) >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Cats and Dogs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I don't know about this. My dog Lady loves "her" cats but will chase any
others and if she got a hold of them I'd be afraid she'd hurt them. I'd be
very cautious with this.
Celeste
"Suja" <spanaval.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yBQgi.21477$tL1.14135@newsfe22.lga...
>
> Just thinking out loud. Possibly worrying for no good reason. But....
>
> We're visiting ELB over the weekend. He now has 7 or 8 cats (I've lost
> count). I'm not worried at all about Pan, since she's lived with cats and
> ferrets, and play bows to bunnies. But, she's the *ultimate* follower,
> and
> may decide to join trouble.
>
> Trouble is named Khan. His original paperwork from the SPCA said that he
> spent time in the executive director's office, "nuzzling kitties". He has
> met some friends' cats but that was 3+ years ago, and while he gets really
> excited, and pokes his nose into cat to inhale deeply (weird!) if they sit
> still, he'll chase any cats that run. Not with malice, I don't think,
> more
> curiosity than anything else (body language is ears up, tail up and
> wagging,
> whining). One of my brother's cats is neurologically impaired, and has
> poor
> motor coordination/eyesight, etc. I am worried that a cat that's
> staggering
> around like a drunk and does not know to command proper respect from dogs
> is
> likely to become a target.
>
> So, the plan is to introduce the dogs and cats, one at a time. Since Pan
> is
> likely to go 'What cats?', we'll take her first, and then bring in Khan.
> Mr. Squirt Bottle will be present when those introductions are made, in
> case
> the fuzzy one thinks that cats are for dinner. Both dogs will be on leash
> when they are introduced.
>
> Is it reasonable to assume that a dog that was cat safe will remain cat
> safe
> although he hasn't lived with them in oh, 6 years? Is it okay to put Khan
> in a down-stay and bring the cats for him to sniff, or otherwise have them
> approach? Do we bother with a food reward when he behaves appropriately,
> or
> just pretend it's no big deal?
>
> Our dogs will be confined to our room at night, and will be separated by
> baby gates when we're out during the day and can't supervise them. ELB
> says
> that his dogs will chase cats or cats will chase dogs when either party
> gets
> bored, but 4 dogs = pack (even if one of them barely qualifies as a dog),
> and I don't know how likely that is to modify behvior.
>
> Suja
>
> >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:26 pm
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on Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:26:42 GMT, "Spot" <noSPAMme.RemoveThis@somewhere.net> wrote:
> I don't know about this. My dog Lady loves "her" cats but will chase
> any others and if she got a hold of them I'd be afraid she'd hurt
> them. I'd be very cautious with this.
I agree. The same is true of my dogs.
Suja, the gates are a good idea, but the problem is that the cats may jump
over them, unaware of any potential danger. Closed doors or crates when
you aren't able to supervise might be safer.
--
Lynne >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:26 pm
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"Spot" <noSPAMme.DeleteThis@somewhere.net> wrote in message:
> I don't know about this. My dog Lady loves "her" cats but will chase any
> others and if she got a hold of them I'd be afraid she'd hurt them.
Pan, I can guarantee, will not hurt a cat. Heck, I'm pretty sure she won't
notice there are cats around. This is a dog that has lived with her own
cats and friends' cats, ferrets, and tried to play bow to bunnies we met at
the Pet Expo. We routinely see the house cat at the pet store, and she
doesn't acknowledge Snowball's existence. Quite honestly, I'm not sure she
really is a dog; she certainly does not seem to think so.
Khan OTOH, does get excited by cats. He is definitely curious. He has
actually met Snowball accidentally, when I was checking out dog food, and it
turned out that the cat was perched on a stack of dog food (I didn't
notice), and all he did was to stick his nose in the cat and inhale deeply.
The cat was less than pleased, but he's older than the hills and didn't even
move, and I dragged Khan away when he tried to goose the cat.
> I'd be
> very cautious with this.
Believe me, I don't want anything bad happening. We'll take all necessary
precautions to make sure that all goes well.
Suja >> Stay informed about: Cats and Dogs |
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