Cat Pregnancy Questions?

"Upscale" <upscale DeleteThis @teksavvy.com> wrote in message
news:69b11$46c47317$cef88bc5$1317@TEKSAVVY.COM...
>
> "cindys" <cstein1 DeleteThis @rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>> least bit quick or painless. Suffocating and having one's lungs fill up
> with
>> water would IMO be the worst death imaginable. It would be a horrible
>> way
>> for the kitten to die.
>
> Possibly. But, balance the few seconds it would take to become unconscious
> against the hours the kitten was in agony while someone was looking for a
> vet to euthanize the kitten. Reverse the roles and I know which method I'd
> prefer to die.
>
>

It wasn't hours. The SPCA was close by as was the vet who did euthanize.

W
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:52:55 -0400, Upscale wrote:

> "cindys" <cstein1.TakeThisOut@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>> least bit quick or painless. Suffocating and having one's lungs fill up
> with
>> water would IMO be the worst death imaginable. It would be a horrible
>> way for the kitten to die.
>
> Possibly. But, balance the few seconds it would take to become
> unconscious against the hours the kitten was in agony while someone was
> looking for a vet to euthanize the kitten. Reverse the roles and I know
> which method I'd prefer to die.

Why do you think the U.S. gov't uses simulated drowning to extract
information from prisoners? Answer -- because it works. And why does it
work? Answer -- because it's painful and terrifying.

Charlie
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:30:48 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> When you have a cat with it's guts hanging out, what's more painful, the
> trip to the vet or 5 minutes under water?

I don't know. If I had to euthenize a cat without drugs, my first choice
would be to shoot it in the back of the head, using a rifle or handgun,
and my second choice would be to strangle it with a cord.

Charlie
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"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes.TakeThisOut@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.08.16.18.41.53@users.easynews.com...
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:52:55 -0400, Upscale wrote:
> Why do you think the U.S. gov't uses simulated drowning to extract
> information from prisoners? Answer -- because it works. And why does it
> work? Answer -- because it's painful and terrifying.
>
> Charlie

The government currently uses tactics which violate the Geneva convention
because we have a despicable worm as President who has brought shame on the
office and on the nation as a whole. If anyone should be tortured it is
Bush, but lets not stray off the subject of cats.
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"Professor" <vze3vvj2 RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:v32xi.7970$%t4.6778@trnddc03...
> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes RemoveThis @users.easynews.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.08.16.18.41.53@users.easynews.com...
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:52:55 -0400, Upscale wrote:
>> Why do you think the U.S. gov't uses simulated drowning to extract
>> information from prisoners? Answer -- because it works. And why does it
>> work? Answer -- because it's painful and terrifying.
>>
>> Charlie
>
> The government currently uses tactics which violate the Geneva convention
> because we have a despicable worm as President who has brought shame on
> the office and on the nation as a whole. If anyone should be tortured it
> is Bush, but lets not stray off the subject of cats.
>
Errr.....The government was doing things like that long before Bush, but if
you must Bush-bash, then be my guest. (It's not like you're alone....:^)
 >> Stay informed about: Cat Pregnancy Questions? 

"Sheelagh >o<" <sheelagh_madden.DeleteThis@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1187301139.486637.199670@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Aug, 21:53, "Wendy" <wendyp....DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>> "Upscale" <upsc....DeleteThis@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:69b11$46c47317$cef88bc5$1317@TEKSAVVY.COM...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "cindys" <cste....DeleteThis@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>> >> least bit quick or painless. Suffocating and having one's lungs fill
>> >> up
>> > with
>> >> water would IMO be the worst death imaginable. It would be a horrible
>> >> way
>> >> for the kitten to die.
>>
>> > Possibly. But, balance the few seconds it would take to become
>> > unconscious
>> > against the hours the kitten was in agony while someone was looking for
>> > a
>> > vet to euthanize the kitten. Reverse the roles and I know which method
>> > I'd
>> > prefer to die.
>>
>> It wasn't hours. The SPCA was close by as was the vet who did euthanize.
>>
>> W
>
>> It wasn't hours. The SPCA was close by as was the vet who did euthanize.
>
> I "know" that you did the right thing by that kitten Wendy, & so does
> every other person who knows you on here. I find it very tacky that
> others feel the need to pick over the fact that you did what was best
> @ that time for the kitten concerned.
----------
For the record, I hope my remarks were not taken to be a criticism of Wendy.
They were not intended to be, and I would have done the same thing as she
did in her shoes. When my husband put the baby bird out of its misery, it
was only because the vet's office was already closed, and we didn't want the
bird to suffer late into the night only to have to die on its own. Even
though death (using the hoe) was nearly instantaneous, my husband said it
was a horrible experience, and he would never want to repeat it.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.



>
> You have spent a long time helping kittens, cats & all manner of
> rescues for several years, & during that time, you have saved untold
> amount of cats, pregnant Queens & their litters, because of others
> thoughtless attitudes towards spaying & neutering their own cats. It's
> sad that someone feels that they have the right to come along & nit
> pick about what you did for that one kitten, without recognising the
> years that you have spent devoting your life towards saving cats &
> homing the most needy ( & yes, that includes me whilst I continued to
> breed cats too!!)
>
> If I can see this, then so can they too- I feel/ think this is
> selective & downright inventive. No hours, were mentioned @ all in
> your passage! Some are selectively choosing to see what they want to,
> rather than the facts in front of them.
>
> I say well done to you for doing what you could @ the time. It was no
> easy task & I'm certain that you found no happiness in what you had to
> do to put the poor mite out of it's misery. You should be thanked for
> what you had to do, not criticised.
>
> All I can see here is speculation, about what they "might/ or should"
> have done.
> I only agree with one of them, & only then if I had no other choice.
> Lets thank the powers that be that they were not faced with your
> agonising choices, & the poor mite wasn't in their care @ the time.
> You did what you had to in as short as time as was reasonably
> possible. You have my utter respect, it was no easy thing to have to
> handle, & I am so sorry that you were faced with that situation. It
> was a terrible position to find yourself in.
> Best Wishes,
> Sheelagh>"o"<
>
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"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes.TakeThisOut@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
>
> Drowning is a chickenshit way to get rid of cats. People do it out
> here.

Really? As compared to what, something like bashing an animals head in with
a shovel? You risk missing the mark or not hitting it properly in one blow
causing even more pain. While a gun is the quickest way, your living on an
island makes using a gun a lot easier to use than discharging one in a
populated area where the noise can cause repercussions from neighbours and
ultimately the police. As well, the majority of people do not own a gun, not
even close.

Drowning (or suffocation as it might be called) brings on unconsciousness
within a few seconds. An animal does not know to take a big breath like a
human might. Unconsciousness happens in less than 10 seconds without
preparing with lungs full of air to start. The struggling is an instinctive
reaction, not a voluntary one. An injured animal that needs to be euthanized
is already in terror to the extreme. It can't become any worse, all that
needs to be done is to stop that terror as fast as possible.

Debate it all you want, but do a little investigation first (like research )
before you dismiss it due to lack knowledge.
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On 17 Aug, 20:08, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil... DeleteThis @users.easynews.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:11 -0400, Upscale wrote:
>
> > Drowning (or suffocation as it might be called) brings on
> > unconsciousness within a few seconds. An animal does not know to take a
> > big breath like a human might. Unconsciousness happens in less than 10
> > seconds
>
> What is your source for this information? I don't believe it. A
> neighbor of mine had a problem with feral cats nesting under his deck,
> and he drowned some of them years ago. He said they would struggle for a
> good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started
> shooting them instead.
>
> Charlie

This would concur with what I witnessed. Slightly less in pure fact.
They were only kittens, & he had to find & catch them first too
It was dreadful & something I never wish to see or support again!! :o(
Sheelagh >"o"<
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:11 -0400, Upscale wrote:
>
> Drowning (or suffocation as it might be called) brings on
> unconsciousness within a few seconds. An animal does not know to take a
> big breath like a human might. Unconsciousness happens in less than 10
> seconds

What is your source for this information? I don't believe it. A
neighbor of mine had a problem with feral cats nesting under his deck,
and he drowned some of them years ago. He said they would struggle for a
good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started
shooting them instead.

Charlie
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On Aug 17, 2:08 pm, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil....TakeThisOut@users.easynews.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:11 -0400, Upscale wrote:
>
> > Drowning (or suffocation as it might be called) brings on
> > unconsciousness within a few seconds. An animal does not know to take a
> > big breath like a human might. Unconsciousness happens in less than 10
> > seconds
>
> What is your source for this information? I don't believe it. A
> neighbor of mine had a problem with feral cats nesting under his deck,
> and he drowned some of them years ago. He said they would struggle for a
> good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started
> shooting them instead.
>
> Charlie

I have a hard time believing it too. It came to our attention that a
animal control in a neighboring
town was trapping skunks, and drowning them in the traps. I lobbied
hard over this. I don't care if
they *are* skunks, I thought it was a terrible, frightening, and
inhumane way to die.

Sherry
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"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes.DeleteThis@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
> good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started
> shooting them instead.

Unconsciousness happens in a few seconds, but yes the involuntary struggles
or twitches can take longer. The point is that the animal would be
unconscious and not feeling any pain. Isn't that the point of euthanasia in
any form, to curtail pain?
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:16:10 -0400, Upscale wrote:

> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes.TakeThisOut@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
>> good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started
>> shooting them instead.
>
> Unconsciousness happens in a few seconds, but yes the involuntary
> struggles or twitches can take longer. The point is that the animal
> would be unconscious and not feeling any pain. Isn't that the point of
> euthanasia in any form, to curtail pain?

What is the source of your information?

Charlie
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Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wilkes DeleteThis @users.easynews.com> writes:

> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:08:57 -0700, Sherry wrote:
>
>> On Aug 17, 2:08 pm, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil... DeleteThis @users.easynews.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:11 -0400, Upscale wrote:
>>>
>>> > Drowning (or suffocation as it might be called) brings on
>>> > unconsciousness within a few seconds. An animal does not know to take
>>> > a big breath like a human might. Unconsciousness happens in less than
>>> > 10 seconds
>>>
>>> What is your source for this information? I don't believe it. A
>>> neighbor of mine had a problem with feral cats nesting under his deck,
>>> and he drowned some of them years ago. He said they would struggle for
>>> a good 3 minutes, and after about the second or third one, he started
>>> shooting them instead.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>
>> I have a hard time believing it too. It came to our attention that a
>> animal control in a neighboring
>> town was trapping skunks, and drowning them in the traps. I lobbied hard
>> over this. I don't care if
>> they *are* skunks, I thought it was a terrible, frightening, and
>> inhumane way to die.
>>
>> Sherry
>
> Mark Twain said this: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into
> trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
>
> It's easy enough to research topics like this on the web and find out
> what the experts think. The American Veterinary Medical Association's
> Guidelines on Euthanasia (June 2007) can be found here:
>
> http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf
>
> Drowning is listed in "Appendix 4 - Some Unacceptable Agents and Methods
> of Euthanasia" with the comment, "Drowning is not a form of euthanasia
> and is inhumane."

Note that those are guidelines for vets.

In a veterinary context there are many methods available that bring
on sudden death or allow for the animal to be sedated first.
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