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Ray

External


Since: Nov 25, 2003
Posts: 21



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:45 pm
Post subject: Cambridge Torture lab. Full ANC newsletter.
Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals, others (more info?)

High Court Challenge To UK Govt.'s Approval Of Monkey Lab
The UK animal advocacy group 'Animal Aid' and Britain's National
Anti-Vivisection Society (NAVS) have launched a High Court challenge to the
decision by Great Britain's First Secretary of State John Prescott to allow
a massive primate research laboratory to be built in the Cambridgeshire
green belt.
The appeal describes Prescott's decision as perverse, unreasonable and
unfair, and says that Prescott's ruling dismisses the clear advice of his
own Planning Inspector, and the evidence presented to a public inquiry
staged at the end of last year.
The inquiry was held to determine if special circumstances would allow
Cambridge University to build the controversial monkey laboratory in the
Green Belt.
At the two week hearing, Animal Aid and the NAVS presented extensive
scientific evidence to show that the primate centre would produce no
benefits for human medicine.
By contrast, the Planning Inspector concluded that Cambridge University had
failed to show that there was a "national need" for the laboratory.
John Prescott simply ignored this finding.
In their historic appeal, lodged at the beginning of January, the two animal
advocacy groups noted that Prime Minister Tony Blair had made public
statements, in speeches and in letters, that supported the proposal, but
that these were issued outside of the planning process and before the
Inquiry had even been held.
The two groups said the decision to grant permission for the monkey
laboratory was a forgone conclusion, predetermining the result of the
inquiry, and that the Deputy Prime Minister's decision was based on little
fact and flawed information;
Letters from DTi Minister Lord Sainsbury, supporting the application to
build the monkey lab, influenced the decision, but contained shortcomings,
said the animal advocacy groups.
For example, he erroneously claimed that the findings of the recent House of
Lords Select Committee Inquiry on animal experiments supports the proposal
for this laboratory.
Additionally, Animal Aid and the NAVS stated that the denial of information
to them during the inquiry constitutes interference under the Human Rights
Act.
"We are saying in this appeal that the intervention in this case by the
Prime Minister and the DTi Minister amounts to an abuse of the planning
process. The only way for my clients to get a fair hearing is to go to
court," said Norna Hughes of Nabarro Nathanson, solicitors for Animal Aid
and the NAVS.
"NAVS and Animal Aid believe that the Government is not prepared to give
anti-vivisectionists a fair hearing because to do so might be interpreted as
giving in to the animal activists," Hughes said. "The inevitable consequence
is that effective debate is stifled; any form of public hearing including
this planning inquiry are only going through the motions."
"The only independent assessment of this planning application in this case
was by the local planning authority and the Inspector, both of whom turned
it down but the government still approved it," she said. "Significantly, the
planning inspector thought there was something in the objectors' complaint
that the outcome was a forgone conclusion. Commenting on the University's
refusal to present evidence of need for the proposed development and
therefore the inability of the Inquiry to test the evidence, the inspector
said 'Without this, the fears of some objectors that the outcome is a
foregone conclusion is granted credibility'."
Andrew Tyler, Director of Animal Aid and Jan Creamer, Chief Executive of
NAVS, said in a joint statement:
"The Prime Minister, John Prescott, and Lord Sainsbury appear to be riding
roughshod over public opinion and the facts of this case. We can have little
faith in the Prime Minister's current listening exercise if this is an
example."
More information about the ongoing Cambridge Primate Centre controversy can
be found at www.animalaid.org.uk and www.navs.org.uk.
© 2004 Animal News Center, Inc.

IMO this lab will never be built, public opinion will not allow another HLS.
It may help if you tell lord sainsubry (LC intended) what you think about
his intervention, and also boycott his over priced supermarkets.

Concerning the bloated Taff deputy PM (Two Jags) Prescott, nothing to say
about him.
But we have no alternative we can't kick Labour out, there is no
alternative.

What a 'sad shite' house of a country, the leader of the Tories, Michael
Howard figured highly in that Harlot Thatcher's regime. So if you want
interest rates at 14% and unemployment of 4 million, perhaps we could give
him a try.

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Ray

External


Since: Nov 25, 2003
Posts: 21



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: SCROUNGER DODGES AGAIN [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:ktnc00ho0qd7f1jsec98opbfgo3ku1bb1v@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC), "Ray"
<camcompany DeleteThis @goneforapint.com> wrote:
>
> >High Court Challenge To UK Govt.'s Approval Of Monkey Lab
> >The UK animal advocacy group 'Animal Aid' and Britain's National
> >Anti-Vivisection Society (NAVS) have launched a High Court challenge to
the
> >decision by Great Britain's First Secretary of State John Prescott to
allow
> >a massive primate research laboratory to be built in the Cambridgeshire
> >green belt.
> >The appeal describes Prescott's decision as perverse, unreasonable and
> >unfair
>
> Why do you think that? You support vivisection
> and defend others in support of it as "valuable
> defenders of all animal rights issues."

Nash snips again without notice!
>
> Remember this?

<Snip>

How could we forget it? You post it at every verse end.
For the record I stand by the views I expressed.
>
More important though, how do you feel about the governments support for The
Cambridge University Torture Centre?

Secondly, you have failed to answer my question about driving. I did not ask
if you have a licence or any penalty points. The question was - Do you
drive?

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ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 64



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: SCROUNGER DODGES AGAIN [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:20:47 +0000 (UTC), "Ray" <camcompany.TakeThisOut@goneforapint.com> wrote:
>"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message news:ktnc00ho0qd7f1jsec98opbfgo3ku1bb1v@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC), "Ray"<camcompany.TakeThisOut@goneforapint.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The appeal describes Prescott's decision as perverse,
>> >unreasonable and unfair
>>
>> Why do you think that? You support vivisection
>> and defend others in support of it as "valuable
>> defenders of all animal rights issues."
>>
>> Remember this?
>
><Snip>
>
>How could we forget it? You post it at every verse end.
>For the record I stand by the views I expressed.

Then you have no room to criticise vivisectionists
or claim to be in support for the rights of animals
who suffer under them. Your feigned abhorrence
to vivisection is a shameful lie.
>>
>More important though, how do you feel about the
>governments support for The Cambridge University
>Torture Centre?
>
The government is wrong to support it.

>Secondly, you have failed to answer my question about driving.

I'm not going to answer it.

>I did not ask
>if you have a licence or any penalty points. The question was - Do you
>drive?
>
That's none of your business.
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Ray

External


Since: Nov 25, 2003
Posts: 21



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: SCROUNGER DODGES AGAIN [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
news:1pcd00hcpn8o87kb21e0ot9hmvs4f93q9u@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:20:47 +0000 (UTC), "Ray"
<camcompany.TakeThisOut@goneforapint.com> wrote:
> >"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
news:ktnc00ho0qd7f1jsec98opbfgo3ku1bb1v@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC),
"Ray"<camcompany.TakeThisOut@goneforapint.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The appeal describes Prescott's decision as perverse,
> >> >unreasonable and unfair
> >>
> >> Why do you think that? You support vivisection
> >> and defend others in support of it as "valuable
> >> defenders of all animal rights issues."
> >>
> >> Remember this?
> >
> ><Snip>
> >
> >How could we forget it? You post it at every verse end.
> >For the record I stand by the views I expressed.
>
> Then you have no room to criticise vivisectionists
> or claim to be in support for the rights of animals
> who suffer under them. Your feigned abhorrence
> to vivisection is a shameful lie.
> >>
> >More important though, how do you feel about the
> >governments support for The Cambridge University
> >Torture Centre?
> >
> The government is wrong to support it.
>
> >Secondly, you have failed to answer my question about driving.
>
> I'm not going to answer it.
>
> >I did not ask
> >if you have a licence or any penalty points. The question was - Do you
> >drive?
> >
> That's none of your business.

Wrong Fatman.

It is the business of us all.
If you kill or injure anyone when you drive under the influence of drink or
drugs it becomes a matter of public responsibility.
Every bottle of tabs you gobble down is marked "Warning:- May cause
drowsiness. If affected do not drive/operate machinery"
Right?

I'll ask you again - DO YOU DRIVE?
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 27



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam.RemoveThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:ktnc00ho0qd7f1jsec98opbfgo3ku1bb1v@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC), "Ray"
<camcompany.RemoveThis@goneforapint.com> wrote:
>

As you consume far more drugs than I do and I support the BUAV, I can safely
say that you support vivisection far more than I do.

You are scum. Dole scrounging scum with 'dole scroungers crutches'.
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ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 64



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:21:18 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf DeleteThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
>"ipse dixit" <nospam DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message news:ktnc00ho0qd7f1jsec98opbfgo3ku1bb1v@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC), "Ray" <camcompany DeleteThis @goneforapint.com> wrote:
>
> I support the BUAV

How can someone like yourself who openly advocates
a cost to benefit ratio of 1000:1 honestly claim they're
also in support for the British Union for the Abolishment
of Vivisection?

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

For some strange reason you're still desperately trying
to pass yourself off as an ARA while at the same time
promoting vivisection, but no serious abolitionist supports
a cost to benefit ratio while also supporting BUAV, so
it's plainly obvious you're a fraud, Zakhar. You and Ray
don't fool me.
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 27



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
news:jl4e00l9goi3nv251su12totnvir7a3o1s@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:21:18 -0000, "Zakhar"
<tkkomtgsxlhwxf.TakeThisOut@mailinator.com> wrote:
> >"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
news:ktnc00ho0qd7f1jsec98opbfgo3ku1bb1v@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC), "Ray"
<camcompany.TakeThisOut@goneforapint.com> wrote:
> >

LOL, what a fat twat you are.

I can *safely* say that you support vivisection far more than I do.

You are scum. Dole scrounging scum with 'dole scroungers crutches'.

You are SCUM Derek, SCUM, everyone knows it.
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ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 64



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:06:50 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf.TakeThisOut@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>LOL, what a fat twat you are.
>
Snipping all the evidence of your quotes away
and calling me childish names isn't going to prove
anything apart from your obvious embarrassment
at being found in support of vivisection and an
inability to defend your false stance against it.
You do support vivisection, even though you also
claim to be against it in other threads to this in the
past.

The principle behind vivisection is to use animals
as models, and you have made at least three clear
statements that show you believe vivisection
makes sense and should be promoted.

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

That alone says it loud and clear to everyone.

And

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD
being experimented on without his consent, is
a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept
that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as your other example, you
have unwittingly shown that you do support
vivisection. You believe that "most of us can
accept that it's the right thing to do", and that
"we can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."

And

"There can be cases for animal experimentation
as there can be for human experiments. It would
make sense to test a new antibiotic for guinea
pigs on guinea pigs rather than humans, don't you
think?"
Zakhar 2003-02-17

You have no defence against these statements,
and calling me names simply because I unearthed
you as a fraud only demonstrates your lack of
defence even further, so call me what you like; it's
what I expect from those like yourself anyway.

>I can *safely* say that you support vivisection far more than I do.
>
Not at all. I don't support it. You do though, and
your own quotes prove it.

>You are scum.

More childish names instead of a valid defence
only makes you look stupid and embarrassed.
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Dutch

External


Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1110



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:08 am
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam RemoveThis @email.com> wrote
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:06:50 -0000, "Zakhar"
<tkkomtgsxlhwxf RemoveThis @mailinator.com> wrote:

> The principle behind vivisection is to use animals
> as models, and you have made at least three clear
> statements that show you believe vivisection
> makes sense and should be promoted.
>
> "for example if one rabbit would save 1000
> humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
> should die."
> Zakhar 2003-02-02
>
> That alone says it loud and clear to everyone.

That says that he would sacrifice the life of one rabbit if it would_save
1000 human lives, nothing more. The fact that you would NOT do it speaks
volumes about you.
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 27



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam.DeleteThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:pb7f00tk48l3g6g2rtkk2mm8fclaip245j@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:06:50 -0000, "Zakhar"
<tkkomtgsxlhwxf.DeleteThis@mailinator.com> wrote:
> >
> >LOL, what a fat twat you are.

What matters scum, is what you *DO*.

*You fund vivisection* in an effective way, by buying drugs.

I fund the BUAV and rarely take drugs.

'Your' money is used in a very practical way in killing animals, anything
else you say is posturing, and hot air, in a vein attempt to deny your
responsibility.

You're scum, dirty scum that abuse, support abuse, and attempt to evade
responsibility for all your actions.

You have NO value, and do nothing positive for society or animals. Your
existence is a net drain on our society.

FOAD scum, you are, by far, the worse person I have ever encountered.
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ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 64



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:44:36 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf DeleteThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
>"ipse dixit" <nospam DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message news:pb7f00tk48l3g6g2rtkk2mm8fclaip245j@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:06:50 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf DeleteThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >LOL, what a fat twat you are.
>
>What matters scum

Here we go again with all the name calling instead
of offering a defence for your support of vivisection.
Snipping all the evidence of your quotes away
and calling me childish names isn't going to prove
anything apart from your obvious embarrassment
at being found in support of vivisection and an
inability to defend your false stance against it.
You do support vivisection, even though you also
claim to be against it in other threads to this in the
past.

The principle behind vivisection is to use animals
as models, and you have made at least three clear
statements that show you believe vivisection
makes sense and should be promoted.

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

That alone says it loud and clear to everyone.

And

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD
being experimented on without his consent, is
a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept
that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as your other example, you
have unwittingly shown that you do support
vivisection. You believe that "most of us can
accept that it's the right thing to do", and that
"we can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."

And

"There can be cases for animal experimentation
as there can be for human experiments. It would
make sense to test a new antibiotic for guinea
pigs on guinea pigs rather than humans, don't you
think?"
Zakhar 2003-02-17

You have no defence against these statements,
and calling me names simply because I unearthed
you as a fraud only demonstrates your lack of
defence even further, so call me what you like; it's
what I expect from those like yourself anyway.

[snipped ranting and childish name-calling]
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 27



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:062g0052d5p85ubpe9et7d51c4vba149hg@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:44:36 -0000, "Zakhar"
<tkkomtgsxlhwxf RemoveThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
> >"ipse dixit" <nospam RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:pb7f00tk48l3g6g2rtkk2mm8fclaip245j@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:06:50 -0000, "Zakhar"
<tkkomtgsxlhwxf RemoveThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >LOL, what a *** **** you are.
> >
> >What matters ****

What matters, is what you *DO*.

*You fund vivisection* in an effective way, by buying drugs.

I fund the BUAV and rarely take drugs.

'Your' money is used in a very practical way in killing animals, anything
else you say is posturing, and hot air, in a vein attempt to deny your
responsibility.

***You won't address this point, because you have no foundations, just like
you won't address your "rejection of responsibly" scam.***

There you are NO name calling. What excuse will you have this time?
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ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 64



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:04:18 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf.TakeThisOut@mailinator.com> wrote:
>"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message news:062g0052d5p85ubpe9et7d51c4vba149hg@4ax.com...

Snipping all the evidence of your quotes away
isn't going to prove anything apart from your
obvious embarrassment at being found in support
of vivisection and an inability to defend your false
stance against it. You do support vivisection, even
though you also claim to be against it in other threads
to this in the past.

The principle behind vivisection is to use animals
as models, and you have made at least three clear
statements that show you believe vivisection
makes sense and should be promoted.

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

That alone says it loud and clear to everyone.

And

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD
being experimented on without his consent, is
a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept
that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as your other example, you
have unwittingly shown that you do support
vivisection. You believe that "most of us can
accept that it's the right thing to do", and that
"we can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."

And

"There can be cases for animal experimentation
as there can be for human experiments. It would
make sense to test a new antibiotic for guinea
pigs on guinea pigs rather than humans, don't you
think?"
Zakhar 2003-02-17

You have no defence against these statements,
or any defence for your feigned support of
animal rights. You and your cost to benefit
ratio aren't what the animals need. You're a fraud.
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Zakhar

External


Since: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 27



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ipse dixit" <nospam RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:033g00hsfub07rke335pp90r4b4ak035c5@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:04:18 -0000, "Zakhar"
<tkkomtgsxlhwxf RemoveThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
> >"ipse dixit" <nospam RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:062g0052d5p85ubpe9et7d51c4vba149hg@4ax.com...
>

Ah, the "ignoring it" tactic.

You ARE a fat twat.

You ARE scum, dirty filthy scum.

Take your filthy 'ethics' to the grave.

==============================

What matters, is what you *DO*.

*You fund vivisection* in an effective way, by buying drugs.

I fund the BUAV and rarely take drugs.

'Your' money is used in a very practical way in killing animals, anything
else you say is posturing, and hot air, in a vein attempt to deny your
responsibility.

***You won't address this point, because you have no foundations, just like
you won't address your "rejection of responsibly" scam.***

==============================
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ipse dixit

External


Since: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 64



(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Ray Slater supports Cambridge Torture lab. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:49:34 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf.TakeThisOut@mailinator.com> wrote:

>
>"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message news:033g00hsfub07rke335pp90r4b4ak035c5@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:04:18 -0000, "Zakhar" <tkkomtgsxlhwxf.TakeThisOut@mailinator.com> wrote:
>> >"ipse dixit" <nospam.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message news:062g0052d5p85ubpe9et7d51c4vba149hg@4ax.com...
>
>Ah, the "ignoring it" tactic.
>
That's exactly what you're doing while you keep
snipping your embarrassing quotes away all the
time.

>You ARE a fat twat.
>
>You ARE scum, dirty filthy scum.
>
>Take your filthy 'ethics' to the grave.
>
Snipping all the evidence of your quotes away
and calling me childish names isn't going to prove
anything apart from your obvious embarrassment
at being found in support of vivisection and an
inability to defend your false stance against it.
You do support vivisection, even though you also
claim to be against it in other threads to this in the
past.

The principle behind vivisection is to use animals
as models, and you have made at least three clear
statements that show you believe vivisection
makes sense and should be promoted.

"for example if one rabbit would save 1000
humans, then I could accept that the rabbit
should die."
Zakhar 2003-02-02

That alone says it loud and clear to everyone.

And

"The real life case of a 19 year old with vCJD
being experimented on without his consent, is
a form of vivisection. Most of us can accept
that it was the right thing to do, in this sad case.
We can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."
Zakhar 2003-09-28

From that, as well as your other example, you
have unwittingly shown that you do support
vivisection. You believe that "most of us can
accept that it's the right thing to do", and that
"we can take the same decision making process,
independent of species."

And

"There can be cases for animal experimentation
as there can be for human experiments. It would
make sense to test a new antibiotic for guinea
pigs on guinea pigs rather than humans, don't you
think?"
Zakhar 2003-02-17

You have no defence against these statements,
and calling me names simply because I unearthed
you as a fraud only demonstrates your lack of
defence even further, so call me what you like; it's
what I expect from those like yourself anyway.
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