Anti-PETA ads in D.C.

"WalterNY" <walternyc RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9a6f3f0.0402220653.2b770bc4@posting.google.com...
>.........................PETA is a fringe group that simply has
good marketing
> but does not represnt the majority of animal loving humans.


AMEN!
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> > I always thought that dogs, and cats too, joined with us humans
> > because they wanted to not because we captured them and forced them to
> > be our pets.
>
>
> Actually the latest scientific theory is pretty simple, humans throw
> out garbage. Dogs started to realize that hanging out with humans
> meant easy food. Eventually we befreinded these wild animals and they
> became part of our pack.

Of course cats waited until we were on a higher level of civilization
before they decided to be our friends. >^^<
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walternyc.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote in message news:<d9a6f3f0.0402220653.2b770bc4.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
> You'd be much better to support your local no kill shelter than to
> support PETA. PETA is a fringe group that simply has good marketing
> but does not represnt the majority of animal loving humans.

I can't believe it, Walter and I actually agree on something without exception.
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rosebrook RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) wrote in message news:<f3edd2d2.0402231627.694cb8fa RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
> walternyc RemoveThis @hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote in message news:<d9a6f3f0.0402220653.2b770bc4 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
> > You'd be much better to support your local no kill shelter than to
> > support PETA. PETA is a fringe group that simply has good marketing
> > but does not represnt the majority of animal loving humans.
>
> I can't believe it, Walter and I actually agree on something without exception.


There's actually a lot you and i agree on. But as for PETA, I'd never
support this fringe group. They are a sad bunch of folks.
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On 22 Feb 2004 06:52:10 -0800, walternyc.DeleteThis@hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote:

>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>> _________________________________________________________
>> WITHOUT ANIMAL RESEARCH:
>>
>
>Please, that list is presented by AMP. AMP's mission is to protect
>your investment in research as they themselves say. I wouldn't trust
>it's facts as being non-biased. There is a reason why animal recearch
>is being halted all over the world on a daily basis. First and
>foremost, animal recearch shows little promise for solviong human
>disease. From rats to chimps, the recearch done using these animals
>does not fit the human model. A few examples:
>
>Rats are often used in laboratory experiments. The number of rats
>killed each year range as high as 23.6 million. But the fact is that
>rats differ markedly from humans in many respects, making rat
>experiments difficult to extrapolate to humans. Rats are used in
>cholestorol experiemnts even though
>rats are very different from humans in the ways their bodies process
>fat and cholesterol. For example, rats have a much higher activity of
>the liver enzyme 5-desaturase, which is used in the body to change the
>chemical structure of fats. This enzyme is found in various tissues in
>the body, including platelets, the liver, the adrenal glands, the
>kidneys, and fat. The result is that "the rat is not an appropriate
>human model for studies involving lipids," according to a researcher
>at Boston's Tufts University. Another researcher wrote, "It is not
>possible to extrapolate directly from rat to human studies because of
>differences in plasma lipoprotein [cholesterol and triglycerides]
>metabolism between the species."

For one thing it's quite obvious that people are aware of the
differences, and that they learned of them from animal research.
It's also likely that understanding the differences and how they
work can lead to useful treatment of humans based on such
information. It's also a pretty safe bet that humans wouldn't do
experiments on 23 million rats in a year if they didn't gain anything
from doing so. What percentage of those rats do you think are
forced to indure a significant amount of suffering btw?
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In article <otpn30dq26de2vb5ma69bjf83spp3a4471.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>, dh_ld.TakeThisOut@nomail.com
says...
> For one thing it's quite obvious that people are aware of the
> differences, and that they learned of them from animal research.
> It's also likely that understanding the differences and how they
> work can lead to useful treatment of humans based on such
> information. It's also a pretty safe bet that humans wouldn't do
> experiments on 23 million rats in a year if they didn't gain anything
> from doing so. What percentage of those rats do you think are
> forced to indure a significant amount of suffering btw?

Regardless of what people think of motivations, just remember one
thing: Lab animals are _not cheap_, either to buy[0] or to maintain[1].
Long gone are the days when Dr. Banting just had to go to the pound and
pay a few bucks per stray.


[0] When I saw some prices, IIRC, it was in the hundreds of
dollars for a single mouse or rat. This was a decade ago.

[1] I've worked in a research hospital where rats and mice were
used: The area they were in had two pairs of one way doors for the
entrance and exit, a separate ventilation system, and the _hallway_ was a
low grade clean area, (i.e. hair nets, lab coats and shoe covers, which
did not leave the area, and only the lab coats were re-used). If you had
even so mush as a sniffle, you didn't go in, due to the weak immune
systems and genetic monoculture of the rodents.
Needless to say, neither I nor my boss liked having to do work in
there. No one liked it when we had to bring in the new refrigerator, (it
could not fit through the in doors).

--
Phoenix
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On 24 Feb 2004 20:11:04 -0800, walternyc DeleteThis @hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote:

>rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) wrote in message news:<f3edd2d2.0402231627.694cb8fa DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
>> walternyc DeleteThis @hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote in message news:<d9a6f3f0.0402220653.2b770bc4 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
>> > You'd be much better to support your local no kill shelter than to
>> > support PETA. PETA is a fringe group that simply has good marketing
>> > but does not represnt the majority of animal loving humans.
>>
>> I can't believe it, Walter and I actually agree on something without exception.
>
>
>There's actually a lot you and i agree on. But as for PETA, I'd never
>support this fringe group. They are a sad bunch of folks.

There are good and bad things about the group. They get publicity
about many terrible abuses of animals. I understand a need may exist
for animal studies on products that will benefit humanity and maybe
animals, but killing countless frogs so children in biology classes
can bounce their eyes in the aisles serves no useful purpose. There
are better ways.

Actually, I have no idea if PETA protested mass frog murder. It is
something that has bothered me since I was in biology class bouncing
frog eyes. If they haven't protested that and it still goes on, then
they should be protesting it.

The fact is that we treat our food animals in horrible ways. Ripping
off beaks, keeping animals in tiny cages for their whole lives, and so
on. That does need to be discussed and fixed. Yes, we likely will pay
more. Maybe we'll eat less meat and be healthier.
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dgk wrote:

<snip>
> Actually, I have no idea if PETA protested mass frog murder. It is
> something that has bothered me since I was in biology class bouncing
> frog eyes. If they haven't protested that and it still goes on, then
> they should be protesting it.

Yes, it has been one of their major foci. They have helped set up
kits for groups of students who want to protest frog dissection,
and have helped students and their parents sue school districts to
get legal exemptions so that students who don't want to dissect can
still pass biology classes and get credit (using the Virtual Frog
computer dissection program or a 3-D frog model). Several states
IIRC have passed laws so that this is public school policy. There's
even a bumper sticker ("Proud Parents of a Student Who Won't Dissect").
You can check on the PETA website, I believe, for info on the program.

<snip>

> The fact is that we treat our food animals in horrible ways. Ripping
> off beaks, keeping animals in tiny cages for their whole lives, and so
> on. That does need to be discussed and fixed. Yes, we likely will pay
> more. Maybe we'll eat less meat and be healthier.

Yes, to all that!

Rat
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dgk said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

> They get publicity
> about many terrible abuses of animals.

Even if the abuse is only in their own minds.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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"dgk" <sonicechoes-spamless DeleteThis @hot-nospamp-mail.com> wrote in message
news:gl6p30ptdduns2a9sdo89p03hkjihgl55o@4ax.com...
> On 24 Feb 2004 20:11:04 -0800, walternyc DeleteThis @hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote:
>
> >rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) wrote in message
news:<f3edd2d2.0402231627.694cb8fa DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> >> walternyc DeleteThis @hotmail.com (WalterNY) wrote in message
news:<d9a6f3f0.0402220653.2b770bc4 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
> >> > You'd be much better to support your local no kill shelter than to
> >> > support PETA. PETA is a fringe group that simply has good marketing
> >> > but does not represnt the majority of animal loving humans.
> >>
> >> I can't believe it, Walter and I actually agree on something without
exception.
> >
> >
> >There's actually a lot you and i agree on. But as for PETA, I'd never
> >support this fringe group. They are a sad bunch of folks.
>
> There are good and bad things about the group. They get publicity
> about many terrible abuses of animals. I understand a need may exist
> for animal studies on products that will benefit humanity and maybe
> animals, but killing countless frogs so children in biology classes
> can bounce their eyes in the aisles serves no useful purpose. There
> are better ways.
>
> Actually, I have no idea if PETA protested mass frog murder. It is
> something that has bothered me since I was in biology class bouncing
> frog eyes. If they haven't protested that and it still goes on, then
> they should be protesting it.
>
> The fact is that we treat our food animals in horrible ways.
=============================
We also kill animals for our food in far more cruel, inhumane ways that any
meat animal suffers. The difference is that we just slice, dice, shred,
dis-member and poison them and then leave them to suffer, die, and rot.
Haven't seen any vegan or PeTA demand that those deaths stop. Of course
that would mean that you and they would actually be inconvenienced. It's
far easier to just rant about what you think others are doing, right?


Ripping
> off beaks, keeping animals in tiny cages for their whole lives, and so
> on. That does need to be discussed and fixed. Yes, we likely will pay
> more. Maybe we'll eat less meat and be healthier.
 >> Stay informed about: Anti-PETA ads in D.C. 

> >> Actually the latest scientific theory is pretty simple, humans throw
> >> out garbage. Dogs started to realize that hanging out with humans
> >> meant easy food. Eventually we befreinded these wild animals and they
> >> became part of our pack.
> >
> >Of course cats waited until we were on a higher level of civilization
> >before they decided to be our friends. >^^<
>
> Of course cats waited until we had enough befriended wild animals that they
> could amuse themselves with >><: -=o( @" __o.

I guess you mean rats and mice.

>
> I heard also that almost all domestic animals were *pets* first, the exception
> is *horses* which were kept solely for food (and religious ceremonies which
> implied eating them).

I've heard that too. It makes sense to me.
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On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:48:05 -0500, "rick etter"
<retterstop RemoveThis @bright.net> wrote:

>We also kill animals for our food in far more cruel, inhumane ways that any
>meat animal suffers. The difference is that we just slice, dice, shred,
>dis-member and poison them and then leave them to suffer, die, and rot.
>Haven't seen any vegan or PeTA demand that those deaths stop. Of course
>that would mean that you and they would actually be inconvenienced. It's
>far easier to just rant about what you think others are doing, right?

Was this directed to me? I'm not sure what point you are making. What
animals are you referring to?
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"dgk" <sonicechoes-spamless.RemoveThis@hot-nospamp-mail.com> wrote in message
news:3jsr30900e1fgor9tnu2fdvjd1igco3a0r@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:48:05 -0500, "rick etter"
> <retterstop.RemoveThis@bright.net> wrote:
>
> >We also kill animals for our food in far more cruel, inhumane ways that
any
> >meat animal suffers. The difference is that we just slice, dice, shred,
> >dis-member and poison them and then leave them to suffer, die, and rot.
> >Haven't seen any vegan or PeTA demand that those deaths stop. Of course
> >that would mean that you and they would actually be inconvenienced. It's
> >far easier to just rant about what you think others are doing, right?
>
> Was this directed to me?
======================
Yes.

I'm not sure what point you are making.
=================
The point is that animals die for the production of *all* your food, not
just the animals that are eaten.


What
> animals are you referring to?
=====================
Mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, amphibians...
Millions upon millions, upon millions. Sliced, diced, shredded,
dis-membered, and poisoned, just to keep your veggies clean, convenient and
cheap.

Just because you may not eat an animal doesn't mean that they don't die for
your food.
Or is that too much information for you to handle?
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