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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:11 am
Post subject: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life Archived from groups: talk>politics>animals (more info?)
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What do you think:
By: David Martosko
Newspaper: Home News Tribune (East Brunswick, NJ)
Six of America's most committed animal-rights activists will soon find
themselves entering cages instead of smashing them. Along with their
organization, Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty, they were convicted on
federal terrorism charges in March. Their campaign of fear and
intimidation targeted employees, customers, and suppliers of a medical
research laboratory that uses animals. Yesterday in Trenton, three were
sentenced to six years in jail. The remaining three face sentencing
this week and next.
Like true terror masterminds, these six took protecting lab rats past
the point of earnest debate and honest persuasion, choosing instead to
orchestrate a destructive crusade. Was it terrorism? You decide.
The campaign included death threats, overturned cars, bombings and
front-lawn midnight protests complete with chants of "Let's burn his
house to the ground." There was even a menacing phone barrage directed
at New York Stock Exchange employees, targeted for agreeing to list an
animal research company on the Big Board.
Real people with real families were terrified.
"You don't need a four-year degree to call in a bomb hoax," one of the
SHAC convicts told teens at a 2002 animal-rights convention. At a rally
outside a New Jersey laboratory, the same ringleader encouraged
activists to end animal-based medical research by targeting
"individuals who have weaknesses, who have breaking points, and who
have home addresses."
He wasn't kidding. The most compelling testimony in the SHAC trial came
from an insurance executive whose company underwrote a policy for that
New Jersey lab. She recounted how her 7-year-old son would grab a
kitchen knife whenever the doorbell rang, promising to protect her from
"the animal people."
Her son's name (and his teacher's) turned up on a SHAC Web site, along
with the fact that he sang in his school's choir. One day an anonymous
note arrived at the house, threatening to cut him open and poison him.
Empty or not, threats like this translate to sleepless nights and
crippling fear. And not all the bombs in this campaign have been
hoaxes. Two SHAC-targeted West Coast companies were struck by 10-pound
pipe bombs packed with nail shrapnel. One device included a secondary
explosive, timed to go off when paramedics arrived.
SHAC's leaders denied any involvement in these two attacks. Since
they're headed to prison, it's comforting to think they're just trying
to avoid lengthening their rap sheets. But the radical animal-rights
world is bigger than just six criminals.
Dozens of organizations in this nationwide movement want what SHAC
wants: an end to medical experiments using animals. Most Americans want
something very different. Cures for cancer and AIDS, for instance.
If history is any guide, animal research models are where these answers
await us. Animal testing has already brought us anesthesia,
antibiotics, insulin, vaccines, allergy shots, organ transplants, and
literally hundreds of other advances that we take for granted.
The church of animal rights, of which SHAC preaches merely the most
recent fundamentalism, would sweep that all aside. Some worshippers
make bombs - or, like SHAC, make bombers. Others lobby Congress, file
lawsuits, buy expensive advertising, and run propaganda-laden Web
sites. Most of them raise millions of dollars every year.
Some are familiar. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. The
Humane Society of the United States. The Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine. The Animal Liberation Front. As varied as their
names and tactics are, these groups all share a common goal:
"Liberating" animals, regardless of the cost to humanity.
As a spokesman for the oddly misnamed Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine in 2003, Dr. Jerry Vlasak (who now speaks for the
Animal Liberation Front, an FBI-designated terror group) endorsed the
murder of medical researchers in the name of animal rights. "I don't
think you'd have to kill - assassinate - too many," he said. "For
five lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2
million, 10 million non-human lives."
Bruce Friedrich, a People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals vice
president, famously said in 2001 that "blowing stuff up and smashing
windows" is "a great way to bring about animal liberation." And PETA
president Ingrid Newkirk has never softened her 17-year-old stance that
"even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against
it."
Six animal-rights extremists will go to prison, but many more are out
there. While law enforcement can respond to arson fires and death
threats, subtler attacks on the future of humanity demand everyone's
vigilance. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
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Since: May 05, 2006 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:28 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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1. it's a lot more than "lab rats." Dogs, cats monkeys, etc. And lots
of them.
2. Vivisection remains a costly pseudo-science.
3. it is one of the new GROWTH INDUSTRIES, helping to replace all
those tens of millions of "good manufacting jobs."
-----------------------
Vonne wrote:
> What do you think:
>
> By: David Martosko
> Newspaper: Home News Tribune (East Brunswick, NJ)
>
> Six of America's most committed animal-rights activists will soon find
> themselves entering cages instead of smashing them. Along with their
> organization, Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty, they were convicted on
> federal terrorism charges in March. Their campaign of fear and
> intimidation targeted employees, customers, and suppliers of a medical
> research laboratory that uses animals. Yesterday in Trenton, three were
> sentenced to six years in jail. The remaining three face sentencing
> this week and next.
>
> Like true terror masterminds, these six took protecting lab rats past
> the point of earnest debate and honest persuasion, choosing instead to
> orchestrate a destructive crusade. Was it terrorism? You decide.
>
> The campaign included death threats, overturned cars, bombings and
> front-lawn midnight protests complete with chants of "Let's burn his
> house to the ground." There was even a menacing phone barrage directed
> at New York Stock Exchange employees, targeted for agreeing to list an
> animal research company on the Big Board.
>
> Real people with real families were terrified.
>
> "You don't need a four-year degree to call in a bomb hoax," one of the
> SHAC convicts told teens at a 2002 animal-rights convention. At a rally
> outside a New Jersey laboratory, the same ringleader encouraged
> activists to end animal-based medical research by targeting
> "individuals who have weaknesses, who have breaking points, and who
> have home addresses."
>
> He wasn't kidding. The most compelling testimony in the SHAC trial came
> from an insurance executive whose company underwrote a policy for that
> New Jersey lab. She recounted how her 7-year-old son would grab a
> kitchen knife whenever the doorbell rang, promising to protect her from
> "the animal people."
>
> Her son's name (and his teacher's) turned up on a SHAC Web site, along
> with the fact that he sang in his school's choir. One day an anonymous
> note arrived at the house, threatening to cut him open and poison him.
>
> Empty or not, threats like this translate to sleepless nights and
> crippling fear. And not all the bombs in this campaign have been
> hoaxes. Two SHAC-targeted West Coast companies were struck by 10-pound
> pipe bombs packed with nail shrapnel. One device included a secondary
> explosive, timed to go off when paramedics arrived.
>
> SHAC's leaders denied any involvement in these two attacks. Since
> they're headed to prison, it's comforting to think they're just trying
> to avoid lengthening their rap sheets. But the radical animal-rights
> world is bigger than just six criminals.
>
> Dozens of organizations in this nationwide movement want what SHAC
> wants: an end to medical experiments using animals. Most Americans want
> something very different. Cures for cancer and AIDS, for instance.
>
> If history is any guide, animal research models are where these answers
> await us. Animal testing has already brought us anesthesia,
> antibiotics, insulin, vaccines, allergy shots, organ transplants, and
> literally hundreds of other advances that we take for granted.
>
> The church of animal rights, of which SHAC preaches merely the most
> recent fundamentalism, would sweep that all aside. Some worshippers
> make bombs - or, like SHAC, make bombers. Others lobby Congress, file
> lawsuits, buy expensive advertising, and run propaganda-laden Web
> sites. Most of them raise millions of dollars every year.
>
> Some are familiar. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. The
> Humane Society of the United States. The Physicians Committee for
> Responsible Medicine. The Animal Liberation Front. As varied as their
> names and tactics are, these groups all share a common goal:
> "Liberating" animals, regardless of the cost to humanity.
>
> As a spokesman for the oddly misnamed Physicians Committee for
> Responsible Medicine in 2003, Dr. Jerry Vlasak (who now speaks for the
> Animal Liberation Front, an FBI-designated terror group) endorsed the
> murder of medical researchers in the name of animal rights. "I don't
> think you'd have to kill - assassinate - too many," he said. "For
> five lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2
> million, 10 million non-human lives."
>
> Bruce Friedrich, a People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals vice
> president, famously said in 2001 that "blowing stuff up and smashing
> windows" is "a great way to bring about animal liberation." And PETA
> president Ingrid Newkirk has never softened her 17-year-old stance that
> "even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against
> it."
>
> Six animal-rights extremists will go to prison, but many more are out
> there. While law enforcement can respond to arson fires and death
> threats, subtler attacks on the future of humanity demand everyone's
> vigilance. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:39 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> 1. it's a lot more than "lab rats." Dogs, cats monkeys, etc. And lots
> of them.
>
> 2. Vivisection remains a costly pseudo-science.
>
> 3. it is one of the new GROWTH INDUSTRIES, helping to replace all
> those tens of millions of "good manufacting jobs."
and does that validate blowing up paramedics and terrorizing 7 year
olds because of what thier parents choose to do? >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
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External

Since: May 05, 2006 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:02 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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There is zero evidence of "bombing." SAHAC was never charged with
"bombing."
Vonne wrote:
> Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> > 1. it's a lot more than "lab rats." Dogs, cats monkeys, etc. And lots
> > of them.
> >
> > 2. Vivisection remains a costly pseudo-science.
> >
> > 3. it is one of the new GROWTH INDUSTRIES, helping to replace all
> > those tens of millions of "good manufacting jobs."
>
>
> and does that validate blowing up paramedics and terrorizing 7 year
> olds because of what thier parents choose to do? >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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External

Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:16 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> There is zero evidence of "bombing." SAHAC was never charged with
> "bombing."
There is no proof that they've bombed anyone in the USA. However, they
are so known for these tactics that researchers in the UK are trained
on how to look for bombs in their cars.
And I noticed that you didn't say anything about terrorizing 7 year
olds. Perhaps you think that is ok, as long as it's for a good cause. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
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Since: May 05, 2006 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:58 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Von-dee, you are postulating your own exaggerations as fact.
No one who champions the cause of innocent nha has ever harmed a 7
year-old child.
Vonne wrote:
> Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> > There is zero evidence of "bombing." SAHAC was never charged with
> > "bombing."
>
> There is no proof that they've bombed anyone in the USA. However, they
> are so known for these tactics that researchers in the UK are trained
> on how to look for bombs in their cars.
>
> And I noticed that you didn't say anything about terrorizing 7 year
> olds. Perhaps you think that is ok, as long as it's for a good cause. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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External

Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> Von-dee, you are postulating your own exaggerations as fact.
>
> No one who champions the cause of innocent nha has ever harmed a 7
> year-old child.
I would consider scaring a 7 year old to the point where he will grab a
knife to defend his mommy as harmful. and let's not forget the
accidental fire bombing of the little old lady's house in california
that happend recently. i really have to hand it the animal rights
extreamists... the sure do know how to defend the best interests of the
weak. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
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External

Since: May 05, 2006 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You might wanna consider the fact that anyone can be
a human rights hackanoid: anti-abort terrorists, religionists,
humanists--
no end to this list of humanoids.
Vonne wrote:
> Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> > Von-dee, you are postulating your own exaggerations as fact.
> >
> > No one who champions the cause of innocent nha has ever harmed a 7
> > year-old child.
>
>
> I would consider scaring a 7 year old to the point where he will grab a
> knife to defend his mommy as harmful. and let's not forget the
> accidental fire bombing of the little old lady's house in california
> that happend recently. i really have to hand it the animal rights
> extreamists... the sure do know how to defend the best interests of the
> weak. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:58 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> You might wanna consider the fact that anyone can be
> a human rights hackanoid: anti-abort terrorists, religionists,
> humanists--
> no end to this list of humanoids.
People have many different points of view. That's one thing that is so
great about the USA. However, as my father would say, your right to
hit me stops where my face begins.
I have no problem with most animal rights activists. Having different
opinions spurs debate and debates make us all think about why we have
the point of view that we do. We can all benefit from rethinking our
political and ethical stance on various topics from time to time.
However, the freedom of speach is not all inclusive. Our right to have
our own opinion stops when it negatively influances the health and
welfare of others. I can think however I want. But if I theaten to
cut and murder your son unless you change your mind to think like
me.... well then I've crossed the line. And that is exactally what the
Animal Rights Extremists do. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
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Since: May 05, 2006 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You been TOLD that's what they do; you have never heard an ARA say that
to any vivisector yourself.
So, it's heresay and in fact, slander. Big Research will stop at
nothing to keep
those billions of tax dollars flowing to them.
Polio was finally cured when the animal models were discarded; no other
disease has had the same sense of urgency against it.
The Animal Lab gangs want to keep their jobs, not cure disease.
Vonne wrote:
> Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> > You might wanna consider the fact that anyone can be
> > a human rights hackanoid: anti-abort terrorists, religionists,
> > humanists--
> > no end to this list of humanoids.
>
> People have many different points of view. That's one thing that is so
> great about the USA. However, as my father would say, your right to
> hit me stops where my face begins.
>
> I have no problem with most animal rights activists. Having different
> opinions spurs debate and debates make us all think about why we have
> the point of view that we do. We can all benefit from rethinking our
> political and ethical stance on various topics from time to time.
>
> However, the freedom of speach is not all inclusive. Our right to have
> our own opinion stops when it negatively influances the health and
> welfare of others. I can think however I want. But if I theaten to
> cut and murder your son unless you change your mind to think like
> me.... well then I've crossed the line. And that is exactally what the
> Animal Rights Extremists do. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:40 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> You been TOLD that's what they do; you have never heard an ARA say that
> to any vivisector yourself.
>
> So, it's heresay and in fact, slander. Big Research will stop at
> nothing to keep
> those billions of tax dollars flowing to them.
>
> Polio was finally cured when the animal models were discarded; no other
> disease has had the same sense of urgency against it.
>
> The Animal Lab gangs want to keep their jobs, not cure disease.
Well guess what. I am in research. I have been threatened.
I've also been to farms and been in labs. I have seen with my own eyes
how animals raised for food are treated. I've toured slaughter houses.
I actually inspect animal care facilities to ensure that the
caretakers and technitions are going above and beyond what is required
by the AWA, the PHS Policy, and the Guide to protect the health and
welfare of our animals.
I have always been an animal lover and when I started learning about
animal welfare issues, I visited the PeTA website first. I looked
through each page and actually read what they had to say. What I found
was a bunch of pictures and movies with no date of when or where they
were taken. What gaurentee do we have that these pictures have not
been photoshoped? And how much do you want to bet that they are using
old pictures? In many cases when law enforcement officials ask PeTA to
turn over the unedited videos so that can investigate these claims of
animal abuse and punish those responsive, PeTA refuses to co-operate.
The truth is that the research community has come a long way since the
1960's, especailly in the last 20 years. I just logged on to the PeTA
website to watch one of their recruitment videos. They purposely gave
the impression that all researchers do is blind bunnies and tourture
primates. When in reality, most of the animals used in research are
mice, with a growing number of fish (to verify this, check out the USDA
website). On the rare occassion that we do use dogs, the research is
so mild that they can be adopted out as pets when the study is done.
Keep in mind, just because something doesn't look pretty, doesn't mean
it hurts.
Animal Rights Groups raise BILLIONS of dollars every year. However,
absolutely 0 dollars go towards researching alternatives to using
animals in research. They tell us we have to change because we are
evil monsters. The threaten our homes, our lives, and our families.
And yet, they do nothing to help us change. They don't even give money
to local humane socities or SPCAs.
Do you honestly believe that the first thing Dr. Salk injected with an
experimental bacterial based vaccine was his own kid? Yes, Dr. Salk
skipped a few steps that we used now. And in his haste, there was flaw
in the production of the vaccine which caused 200 people to get Polio
from the injection and 11 to die from it.
I am a member of this "Animal Lab gang" and yes, our jobs are very
important to us because we know that if we are doing the job, the
animals will be treated in the most humane way possible. When a
surgery needs to be done, we will treat the animal with the appropriate
amount of anesthetics and pain killers. The animals in my care are
socialized. They have enough room to move around. The are well fed
and well loved by their caretakers.
I know these things because I have seen and experiences them. I am not
coming to these conclusions solely baised on a one-sided argument using
outdated facts. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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 |  |
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
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External

Since: May 05, 2006 Posts: 35
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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At least Vonne admitted what he is; he will always have to employ
doublethink ala "1984" to justify what he does. there is no point in
any further discussion.
Vonne wrote:
> Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> > You been TOLD that's what they do; you have never heard an ARA say that
> > to any vivisector yourself.
> >
> > So, it's heresay and in fact, slander. Big Research will stop at
> > nothing to keep
> > those billions of tax dollars flowing to them.
> >
> > Polio was finally cured when the animal models were discarded; no other
> > disease has had the same sense of urgency against it.
> >
> > The Animal Lab gangs want to keep their jobs, not cure disease.
>
>
> Well guess what. I am in research. I have been threatened.
>
> I've also been to farms and been in labs. I have seen with my own eyes
> how animals raised for food are treated. I've toured slaughter houses.
> I actually inspect animal care facilities to ensure that the
> caretakers and technitions are going above and beyond what is required
> by the AWA, the PHS Policy, and the Guide to protect the health and
> welfare of our animals.
>
> I have always been an animal lover and when I started learning about
> animal welfare issues, I visited the PeTA website first. I looked
> through each page and actually read what they had to say. What I found
> was a bunch of pictures and movies with no date of when or where they
> were taken. What gaurentee do we have that these pictures have not
> been photoshoped? And how much do you want to bet that they are using
> old pictures? In many cases when law enforcement officials ask PeTA to
> turn over the unedited videos so that can investigate these claims of
> animal abuse and punish those responsive, PeTA refuses to co-operate.
>
> The truth is that the research community has come a long way since the
> 1960's, especailly in the last 20 years. I just logged on to the PeTA
> website to watch one of their recruitment videos. They purposely gave
> the impression that all researchers do is blind bunnies and tourture
> primates. When in reality, most of the animals used in research are
> mice, with a growing number of fish (to verify this, check out the USDA
> website). On the rare occassion that we do use dogs, the research is
> so mild that they can be adopted out as pets when the study is done.
> Keep in mind, just because something doesn't look pretty, doesn't mean
> it hurts.
>
> Animal Rights Groups raise BILLIONS of dollars every year. However,
> absolutely 0 dollars go towards researching alternatives to using
> animals in research. They tell us we have to change because we are
> evil monsters. The threaten our homes, our lives, and our families.
> And yet, they do nothing to help us change. They don't even give money
> to local humane socities or SPCAs.
>
> Do you honestly believe that the first thing Dr. Salk injected with an
> experimental bacterial based vaccine was his own kid? Yes, Dr. Salk
> skipped a few steps that we used now. And in his haste, there was flaw
> in the production of the vaccine which caused 200 people to get Polio
> from the injection and 11 to die from it.
>
> I am a member of this "Animal Lab gang" and yes, our jobs are very
> important to us because we know that if we are doing the job, the
> animals will be treated in the most humane way possible. When a
> surgery needs to be done, we will treat the animal with the appropriate
> amount of anesthetics and pain killers. The animals in my care are
> socialized. They have enough room to move around. The are well fed
> and well loved by their caretakers.
>
> I know these things because I have seen and experiences them. I am not
> coming to these conclusions solely baised on a one-sided argument using
> outdated facts. >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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External

Since: Feb 16, 2006 Posts: 13
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ronald 'More-More' Moshki wrote:
> At least Vonne admitted what he is; he will always have to employ
> doublethink ala "1984" to justify what he does. there is no point in
> any further discussion.
I have not employed any "doublethink". I use time tested techniques
paired with compassion and a consirn for animal welfare to acheive a
goal that will benefit both animals and people.
What kind of "doublethink" do animal rights extremists use to justify
harming a 7 year child? or killing people? one of my favorite animal
rights extremist quotes is "Dr. Jerry Vlasak (who now speaks for the
Animal Liberation Front, an FBI-designated terror group) endorsed the
murder of medical researchers in the name of animal rights. "I don't
think you'd have to kill - assassinate - too many," he said. "For
five lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2
million, 10 million non-human lives." >> Stay informed about: Animal Rights radicals fail to value human life |
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