 |
|
|
|
Next: HELP! Excitable Black Lab Puppy
|
| Author |
Message |
External
Since: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 1
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:50 pm
Post subject: Labrador Agression
Archived from groups: alt>pets>dogs>labrador (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi to all!
I don't write or post to many things here because the first time I did, I
was eaten alive by some of the letters. I was looking for help and all I got
was dog lovers insulting me with no good suggestions. I hope this don't
repeat I the only reason I am trying for a second time is because I am
desperate. Here is my story,
Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He became
my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because he
was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs don't
like to be bother when they are eating and just to leave him alone when
eating. That's what the whole family did. When he was eating nobody was
close to him (he usually growled at us). This was only when he was eating or
we gave him a treat (raw hide, etc). A couple nights ago he was eating a
treat and after he was done, my son went to say goodbye for the night and he
bit him in the hand. I have called the breeder and he don't know what to do.
I called the vet and she recommend neutering and an animal behaviorist
(another doctor). This doctor is not only far away from me but I think this
is going to cost me a fortune. He has been and inside dog and sometimes we
don't have the time to play with him. He is a beautiful animal, well taken
care off and weighing 85 lbs. The whole family loves this dog but I think he
has become a hazard not only to my family but to other kids in my
neighborhood.
Does anybody have this happen to their dog? I called a trainer and she
explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to sleep.
This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to even
feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my problem? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 | |
External
Since: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 8:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article <%v_Pa.97298$Io.8400302@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "COASTIE" <coastie51.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi to all!
>
>I don't write or post to many things here because the first time I did, I
>was eaten alive by some of the letters. I was looking for help and all I got
>was dog lovers insulting me with no good suggestions. I hope this don't
>repeat I the only reason I am trying for a second time is because I am
>desperate. Here is my story,
>
>Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He became
>my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
>day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because he
>was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs don't
>like to be bother when they are eating and just to leave him alone when
>eating. That's what the whole family did. When he was eating nobody was
>close to him (he usually growled at us). This was only when he was eating or>
>Does anybody have this happen to their dog? I called a trainer and she
>explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to sleep.
>This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to even
>feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my problem?
>
>
>
>
In article <%v_Pa.97298$Io.8400302@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"COASTIE" <coastie51.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi to all!
>
>Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He became
>my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
>day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because he
>was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs don't
>explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to sleep.
>This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to even
>feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my problem?
>
I am not an expert in dog behavioral problem (I am in human ones, been a
threapist for several years, working with kids with behavioral problems). I
can't tell you what is best in your case, just tell you my own experience if
that is of any help
Before we got our two babies Colin and Lyse (18 months boy and girl half
siblings 1 week apart). We had a beautiful Lab mix - Tucker. He has very
gentle and loving always wanting to kiss and be with us just like a lab. We
had noticed that he was a tad headstrong, if he wanted something he wanted it
and would grunt or pull until he got it. When he was 12 weeks my wife picked
him up to bring he back in the house, he grunted and turned his head back and
growled. We just took it a his personality, he was a boy and he had a good
stubroon streak in him.
We took him on walks all the time, exercised him, etc, etc. We read training
mauals and took him to puppy classes. I never had ANY conerns at all with
him. in fact i remmber at a park he went up to a woman to get petted he was
similing at her, body wag, etc. She pulled back saying she did not like any
dog approaching her. I thought, boy is she extreme! Tucker is so nice!
Well he got a foster pup, a 10 week old lab mix. She was cutie and was very
attentive to Tucker. They played a lot togtheer. Well 2 days later, i gave
tucker a treat. while he was eating it and then i gave the pup the same treat.
He was a few feet away and he came towards her, not baking or grunting but i
could see he was looking at her treat. I put up my hand and told him NO,
sit!. He launched at my hand and bit it several times as i screamed. I
grabbed him and finally pulled him off. He grabbed her treat and sat down.
Later that night, i put his food out and then hers. He immedidatly went to
her bowl to eat it, when she growled at him for doing so, he attacked her, she
was screaming and crying and being so little i was conerned. I tried to
separte then and he bit me hard on the hand and went back at her. i fnially
got a basket and threw over him.
Later on that night he was the sweetest boy, licking me wanting to play etc.
Next day we took him to the vet, and got referral to behaviroal specialist.
He exammined him and interviewed us extensivily.
He told us based on his expereince over 20 years, he was not optomistic for
the following reasons:
1 - tucker demonstated that he had very poor or lacked bit inhibition. That
is, he has no issues with biting another person or dog to get his way.
2 - I had been bitten several times on different occasions
3 - I was clearly afraid of him now, not sure when he would bite me. Would it
happen the next time he was fed?
He told me he could work with us but there was a poor chance of success. In a
year he could do it again but this time cause permanent damage to me or my
wife
We talked to the trainer that he had been in socialization class with (he had
been fine there). She had been doing training for over 25 years, worked
dealing with agrressive dogs, and was a breeder of afghans. She examined him
and based on the circumstances felted the same as the vet.
We made a very hard painful decision to put him down. My wife and I cried our
hearts out for days and now 2 years later we still shed a tear or two. Yet,
if I had to make the decision again I would. Tucker demostrated that he could
not be trusted not to bit again if the occasion arose. He was not being
malicious or bad, it was his way of dealing with the situation. With training
we might be able to stop it, but it would be a life long issue, we could not
be totally confident that he would never happen again
With my two babies now, I have no worries at all, but at much deeper level
than tucker. I know that they will not hurt me in any way. I have put my
hand in Colin's mouth and taken our pieces of food (things he was not supposed
to eat) without a thought. When he has gone to Lyse's bowl, all I do is say
NO, and he backs off (thought he stays close and picks up any kibble that
rolls his way).
In your case:
1 - have the vet do a COMPLETE physical exam to rule out causes related to
pain
full blood work (infections, blood diseses )
detailed physcial exam
full dental exam (make sure no painful teeth)
full neuro exam
Keep in mind that he bit your son. Regardless of the situation it occurred
in, can you be 100% confident that it would never happen again. If after
training you feel so, that it would only happen in ceratin cases that can be
avioded then fine, if not well, you have a tough decision to make. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 05, 2003
Posts: 69
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"COASTIE" <coastie51.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%v_Pa.97298$Io.8400302@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hi to all!
>
> I don't write or post to many things here because the first time I did, I
> was eaten alive by some of the letters. I was looking for help and all I
got
> was dog lovers insulting me with no good suggestions. I hope this don't
> repeat I the only reason I am trying for a second time is because I am
> desperate. Here is my story,
>
> Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He
became
> my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
> day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because
he
> was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs don't
> like to be bother when they are eating and just to leave him alone when
> eating. That's what the whole family did. When he was eating nobody was
> close to him (he usually growled at us). This was only when he was eating
or
> we gave him a treat (raw hide, etc). A couple nights ago he was eating a
> treat and after he was done, my son went to say goodbye for the night and
he
> bit him in the hand. I have called the breeder and he don't know what to
do.
> I called the vet and she recommend neutering and an animal behaviorist
> (another doctor). This doctor is not only far away from me but I think
this
> is going to cost me a fortune. He has been and inside dog and sometimes we
> don't have the time to play with him. He is a beautiful animal, well taken
> care off and weighing 85 lbs. The whole family loves this dog but I think
he
> has become a hazard not only to my family but to other kids in my
> neighborhood.
>
> Does anybody have this happen to their dog? I called a trainer and she
> explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to sleep.
> This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to even
> feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my problem?
First, let me say that I'm sorry you had a bad experience and I'm glad you
are giving it another go here.
Throw that trainer's number in the trash (tear it up first). How ridiculous.
If these were vicious attacks, not the get-away-from-my-food bites that I
think you're describing, I'd *still* think long and hard before even
considering killing my dog over it.
I think you got some bad advice ("leave him alone while he eats") and it's
going to take some decided and consistent work on your part to reverse the
effects of following that advice. (Note: never disturb a *strange* dog while
he eats or sleeps.)
Your dog needs to know who is the alpha (the boss) in your family and that
should be you (alpha male) and your wife (alpha female). This is not a
seminar-going boss who surveys everyone for input before making a decision
and then carefully words his/her instructions to empower and comfort the
employees. This is boss whose barked orders are not questioned but swiftly
carried out. To be happy a dog needs to work, so if you don't have time to
play, you must at least take time to work the dog. Give commands (sit, stay,
whatever) every day... that's work to the dog.
According to Charles J. Berger, DVM in 'Part of the Pack,' "The wolf [from
which the domestic dog is descended] pack is a highly socialized, organized
society. And it is this that enables our dogs to fit in so well with our
human families. The wolf pack consists of a pair of dominant animals that
can be viewed as the reproductive nucleus of the pack. They are responsible
for the major decisions that govern the group. The appropriate dog-owner
relationship (especially with large and potentially aggressive breeds) is
one where the human is clearly dominant over the dog. This means you should
always be able to take food away from your dog, put her in a down position,
and handle every part of your dog's body without objection. Failure to
enforce this may result in very unstable dog behavior."
So you'll need to work on that. By you, I mean YOU. After you, then your
wife, then your kid(s).
Bruce Fogle, DVM in 'Caring for Your Dog' suggests, "Teach your dog that
being touched while eating is acceptable, non-threatening behavior and that
hands near the food bowl will not take food away. When you feed the dog,
kneel down beside it while it is eating and offer it something even more
tasty, such as a piece of meat or a liver treat. Once the dog is used to
this, hide the treat in your hand, put your hand in its food bowl, and as
the dog noses your hand, open it up and give the treat, then let the dog
finish its meal. It will quickly learn to enjoy your presence rather than
feel threatened."
That's a good place to start. Others here may have some other techniques to
suggest. >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 20
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Sorry you had a bad experience here. I'll speak for myself, although I'm
sure others will agree, we only have the dog's best interest at heart.
"Very Joyful" said it all in her post. You sure got some bad advice on
coping with your problem. She gave you some excellent advice and the only
thing I will add is to go out and get yourself some good books on raising a
dog and dog behavior. If you really love this dog, you will find a way to
correct your problems with him. Unfortunately, these corrections should
have been started when he was a puppy, however, that is not to say they
can't be manageable. Good luck.
Marie
"Very Joyful" <post.RemoveThis@newsgroup.pls> wrote in message
news:2f%Pa.16767$R92.13224@news2.central.cox.net...
> "COASTIE" <coastie51.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%v_Pa.97298$Io.8400302@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Hi to all!
> >
> > I don't write or post to many things here because the first time I did,
I
> > was eaten alive by some of the letters. I was looking for help and all I
> got
> > was dog lovers insulting me with no good suggestions. I hope this don't
> > repeat I the only reason I am trying for a second time is because I am
> > desperate. Here is my story,
> >
> > Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He
> became
> > my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day.
One
> > day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away
because
> he
> > was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs
don't
> > like to be bother when they are eating and just to leave him alone when
> > eating. That's what the whole family did. When he was eating nobody was
> > close to him (he usually growled at us). This was only when he was
eating
> or
> > we gave him a treat (raw hide, etc). A couple nights ago he was eating a
> > treat and after he was done, my son went to say goodbye for the night
and
> he
> > bit him in the hand. I have called the breeder and he don't know what to
> do.
> > I called the vet and she recommend neutering and an animal behaviorist
> > (another doctor). This doctor is not only far away from me but I think
> this
> > is going to cost me a fortune. He has been and inside dog and sometimes
we
> > don't have the time to play with him. He is a beautiful animal, well
taken
> > care off and weighing 85 lbs. The whole family loves this dog but I
think
> he
> > has become a hazard not only to my family but to other kids in my
> > neighborhood.
> >
> > Does anybody have this happen to their dog? I called a trainer and she
> > explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to
sleep.
> > This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to
even
> > feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my
problem?
>
> First, let me say that I'm sorry you had a bad experience and I'm glad you
> are giving it another go here.
>
> Throw that trainer's number in the trash (tear it up first). How
ridiculous.
> If these were vicious attacks, not the get-away-from-my-food bites that I
> think you're describing, I'd *still* think long and hard before even
> considering killing my dog over it.
>
> I think you got some bad advice ("leave him alone while he eats") and it's
> going to take some decided and consistent work on your part to reverse the
> effects of following that advice. (Note: never disturb a *strange* dog
while
> he eats or sleeps.)
>
> Your dog needs to know who is the alpha (the boss) in your family and that
> should be you (alpha male) and your wife (alpha female). This is not a
> seminar-going boss who surveys everyone for input before making a decision
> and then carefully words his/her instructions to empower and comfort the
> employees. This is boss whose barked orders are not questioned but swiftly
> carried out. To be happy a dog needs to work, so if you don't have time to
> play, you must at least take time to work the dog. Give commands (sit,
stay,
> whatever) every day... that's work to the dog.
>
> According to Charles J. Berger, DVM in 'Part of the Pack,' "The wolf [from
> which the domestic dog is descended] pack is a highly socialized,
organized
> society. And it is this that enables our dogs to fit in so well with our
> human families. The wolf pack consists of a pair of dominant animals that
> can be viewed as the reproductive nucleus of the pack. They are
responsible
> for the major decisions that govern the group. The appropriate dog-owner
> relationship (especially with large and potentially aggressive breeds) is
> one where the human is clearly dominant over the dog. This means you
should
> always be able to take food away from your dog, put her in a down
position,
> and handle every part of your dog's body without objection. Failure to
> enforce this may result in very unstable dog behavior."
>
> So you'll need to work on that. By you, I mean YOU. After you, then your
> wife, then your kid(s).
>
> Bruce Fogle, DVM in 'Caring for Your Dog' suggests, "Teach your dog that
> being touched while eating is acceptable, non-threatening behavior and
that
> hands near the food bowl will not take food away. When you feed the dog,
> kneel down beside it while it is eating and offer it something even more
> tasty, such as a piece of meat or a liver treat. Once the dog is used to
> this, hide the treat in your hand, put your hand in its food bowl, and as
> the dog noses your hand, open it up and give the treat, then let the dog
> finish its meal. It will quickly learn to enjoy your presence rather than
> feel threatened."
>
> That's a good place to start. Others here may have some other techniques
to
> suggest.
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 375
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
COASTIE wrote:
>
> Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He became
> my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
> day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because he
> was making a mess and he bit me. [snip]
This and the rest of what you describe sounds like "resource guarding."
The good news is that there are some well-developed protocols for
dealing with it. The bad news is that it will require discipline
on the part of your family and you, and continued management, probably,
throughout the dog's life. At least this is my understanding, based
on reading and conversations. I have little direct experience with
the issue.
From all I have heard, the tendency to resource guard is "in the dog,"
so don't blame yourself and your family for your dog's tendency. But
definitely do get educated about it--how the dog's mind works,
management techniques, etc. It might be a good idea to consult the
behaviorist. Ask if he/she has a record of success with resource
guarding. Sit down and discuss the problem and decide if your family
can realistically make the commitment.
I think in-person help can provide motivation and perspective that
a book may not, but you might take a look at the books by Jean
Donaldson for some understanding of the issue. I think there is
some explanation in "Culture Clash," some case histories in
"Dogs are from Neptune," and she has another book I have not yet
read, called "Mine!" that focuses on resource guarding.
I do not believe castration (a.k.a. "neutering") will help you. Studies
have shown that forms of aggression other than challenges to other
male dogs don't seem to be affected.
Hope this helps,
Amy Dahl >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 375
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 10:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Very Joyful wrote:
>
> Throw that trainer's number in the trash (tear it up first). How ridiculous.
> If these were vicious attacks, not the get-away-from-my-food bites that I
> think you're describing, I'd *still* think long and hard before even
> considering killing my dog over it.
Respectfully, I think food-guarding is a behavior to be taken
very seriously. In private conversation with a distinguished
trainer, I learned that some of her past cases which disturbed
her the most were a handful of Labs that started out as food
guarders and ended up being euthanized. She was unable to help
them. Sorry if this is cryptic, but is was private conversation.
I hope omitting the trainer's name upholds that.
>
> Your dog needs to know who is the alpha (the boss) in your family and that
> should be you (alpha male) and your wife (alpha female).
Again IMO, this is an attitude and an approach to be regarded with
caution. I have read research reports suggesting that dogs showing
behavior commonly regarded as "dominant," including resource guarding,
tended to be made insecure, and more strongly predisposed to
aggressive behavior, by authoritarian and dominance-oriented
treatment on the part of their owners.
I agree training benefits most Labs and improves many
behavior problems. Specifically I have had dogs with minor
food-guarding issues come to me for training. Without training
on that directly, I found that they allowed me to move or pick
up their feed pans without any aggression, once they had had
some basic training. I do *not* use confrontational or
"alpha wolf" techniques in training, by the way. By all means
take an obedience class, and persist until your Lab really
is obedient. It will help. But don't think that absolutism
and control will solve the problem, or prevent the dog's
biting someone he perceives as lower status, like a child. To
pursue safety in the home, the "behaviorists" approach, teaching
and rewarding exchanges, is a better bet.
"Alpha theory" is all the rage these days, but please study it with
caution.
Amy Dahl >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 10
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 3:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
> I am not an expert in dog behavioral problem . . .
<snip>
Boy, I will agree with that.
>We had a beautiful Lab mix - Tucker. He has very
> gentle and loving always wanting to kiss and be with us just like a lab.
We
> had noticed that he was a tad headstrong, if he wanted something he wanted
it
> and would grunt or pull until he got it. When he was 12 weeks my wife
picked
> him up to bring he back in the house, he grunted and turned his head back
and
> growled. We just took it a his personality, he was a boy and he had a
good
> stubroon streak in him.
Your dog Tucker had an alpha confusion that was never corrected. He was
poorly handled. The outcome WAS your fault.
Getting "dog bit" comes down to making mistakes in how we handle our dogs,
both over time and also in a given situation.
You added another dog to this bad situation. Dog fights are nothing to fool
with. Not only do the dogs get injured but the people who try and break
them up often get badly bitten. Fights are almost always caused as a result
of the handler making mistakes. This means they are people-problems and not
dog-problems.
Dogs are dogs, and they have pack and rank drives - humans may consider them
babies or kids, but they are not. They are still dogs; unless you accept
this you will fail forever with your dogs. Your dog was aggressive because
of how you raised it, and also because of how you threw a new dog into the
pack. Unless you make some serious changes to your views, your new "babies"
will likely have similar problems as they mature.
-- pelirojaroja
-----------------------------------------------
"There is a garden in every childhood,
an enchanted place where colors are brighter,
the air softer, and the morning more fragrant
than ever again."
-- Elizabeth Lawrence
"hourman" <sdfdfwetudfyt.DeleteThis@7fdfster.com> wrote in message
news:3f108bd3$0$28943$45beb828@newscene.com...
> I am not an expert in dog behavioral problem (I am in human ones, been a
> threapist for several years, working with kids with behavioral problems).
I
> can't tell you what is best in your case, just tell you my own experience
if
> that is of any help
>
> Before we got our two babies Colin and Lyse (18 months boy and girl half
> siblings 1 week apart). We had a beautiful Lab mix - Tucker. He has very
> gentle and loving always wanting to kiss and be with us just like a lab.
We
> had noticed that he was a tad headstrong, if he wanted something he wanted
it
> and would grunt or pull until he got it. When he was 12 weeks my wife
picked
> him up to bring he back in the house, he grunted and turned his head back
and
> growled. We just took it a his personality, he was a boy and he had a
good
> stubroon streak in him.
>
> We took him on walks all the time, exercised him, etc, etc. We read
training
> mauals and took him to puppy classes. I never had ANY conerns at all with
> him. in fact i remmber at a park he went up to a woman to get petted he
was
> similing at her, body wag, etc. She pulled back saying she did not like
any
> dog approaching her. I thought, boy is she extreme! Tucker is so nice!
>
> Well he got a foster pup, a 10 week old lab mix. She was cutie and was
very
> attentive to Tucker. They played a lot togtheer. Well 2 days later, i
gave
> tucker a treat. while he was eating it and then i gave the pup the same
treat.
> He was a few feet away and he came towards her, not baking or grunting
but i
> could see he was looking at her treat. I put up my hand and told him NO,
> sit!. He launched at my hand and bit it several times as i screamed. I
> grabbed him and finally pulled him off. He grabbed her treat and sat
down.
> Later that night, i put his food out and then hers. He immedidatly went
to
> her bowl to eat it, when she growled at him for doing so, he attacked her,
she
> was screaming and crying and being so little i was conerned. I tried to
> separte then and he bit me hard on the hand and went back at her. i
fnially
> got a basket and threw over him.
>
> Later on that night he was the sweetest boy, licking me wanting to play
etc.
>
> Next day we took him to the vet, and got referral to behaviroal
specialist.
> He exammined him and interviewed us extensivily.
>
> He told us based on his expereince over 20 years, he was not optomistic
for
> the following reasons:
>
> 1 - tucker demonstated that he had very poor or lacked bit inhibition.
That
> is, he has no issues with biting another person or dog to get his way.
> 2 - I had been bitten several times on different occasions
> 3 - I was clearly afraid of him now, not sure when he would bite me.
Would it
> happen the next time he was fed?
>
> He told me he could work with us but there was a poor chance of success.
In a
> year he could do it again but this time cause permanent damage to me or my
> wife
>
> We talked to the trainer that he had been in socialization class with (he
had
> been fine there). She had been doing training for over 25 years, worked
> dealing with agrressive dogs, and was a breeder of afghans. She examined
him
> and based on the circumstances felted the same as the vet.
>
> We made a very hard painful decision to put him down. My wife and I cried
our
> hearts out for days and now 2 years later we still shed a tear or two.
Yet,
> if I had to make the decision again I would. Tucker demostrated that he
could
> not be trusted not to bit again if the occasion arose. He was not being
> malicious or bad, it was his way of dealing with the situation. With
training
> we might be able to stop it, but it would be a life long issue, we could
not
> be totally confident that he would never happen again
>
> With my two babies now, I have no worries at all, but at much deeper level
> than tucker. I know that they will not hurt me in any way. I have put my
> hand in Colin's mouth and taken our pieces of food (things he was not
supposed
> to eat) without a thought. When he has gone to Lyse's bowl, all I do is
say
> NO, and he backs off (thought he stays close and picks up any kibble that
> rolls his way).
>
> In your case:
>
> 1 - have the vet do a COMPLETE physical exam to rule out causes related to
> pain
> full blood work (infections, blood diseses )
> detailed physcial exam
> full dental exam (make sure no painful teeth)
> full neuro exam
>
> Keep in mind that he bit your son. Regardless of the situation it
occurred
> in, can you be 100% confident that it would never happen again. If after
> training you feel so, that it would only happen in ceratin cases that can
be
> avioded then fine, if not well, you have a tough decision to make. >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 375
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
hourman wrote:
>
> Before we got our two babies Colin and Lyse (18 months boy and girl half
> siblings 1 week apart). We had a beautiful Lab mix - Tucker. He has very
> gentle and loving always wanting to kiss and be with us just like a lab. We
> had noticed that he was a tad headstrong, if he wanted something he wanted it
> and would grunt or pull until he got it. When he was 12 weeks my wife picked
> him up to bring he back in the house, he grunted and turned his head back and
> growled. We just took it a his personality, he was a boy and he had a good
> stubroon streak in him.
>
I hope and trust that with the support of your behaviorist, your obedience
instructor, your vet, and your wife you are not too distressed by strangers
on Usenet who tell you it is all your fault! I am sorry you went through
what you did with Tucker, and applaud you for making the hard decision and
not trying to pretend a problem out of existence. Yes, there is bad
behavior that is due to poor training or lack of training--and there are
also traits that are in the dog.
Amy Dahl >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 4
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
In article <3F11D9AD.70A645AD.DeleteThis@oakhillkennel.com>, Amy Dahl <amy.DeleteThis@oakhillkennel.com> wrote:
>
>
>hourman wrote:
>>
>> Before we got our two babies Colin and Lyse (18 months boy and girl half
>> siblings 1 week apart). We had a beautiful Lab mix - Tucker. He has very
>> gentle and loving always wanting to kiss and be with us just like a lab. We
>> had noticed that he was a tad headstrong, if he wanted something he wanted it
>> and would grunt or pull until he got it. When he was 12 weeks my wife picked
>> him up to bring he back in the house, he grunted and turned his head back and
>> growled. We just took it a his personality, he was a boy and he had a good
>> stubroon streak in him.
>>
>I hope and trust that with the support of your behaviorist, your obedience
>instructor, your vet, and your wife you are not too distressed by strangers
>on Usenet who tell you it is all your fault! I am sorry you went through
>what you did with Tucker, and applaud you for making the hard decision and
>not trying to pretend a problem out of existence. Yes, there is bad
>behavior that is due to poor training or lack of training--and there are
>also traits that are in the dog.
>
>Amy Dahl
Thanks. when i orgianlly posted in group asking for assistance in decision
most were like you kind and offering sound advice others were like the other
guy saying it was totally our fault.
i can see if he was abused or neglected, but we treated him like a little
prince got the best of everything, attention, love, vets, food, etc. His
behavior was extreme (18 months later i still have the scars on my hands, the
bites were that hard). Just because we brought a tiny puppy home was not
sufficent provaction for him to do what he did. it was not just that he
growled or snapped at her or got over her and growled (my girl Lyse has done
that a couple of times to overly playful pups, they get the message very
quiclky) he attacked her biting her repeatly and grabbing her in his mouth and
shaking his head hard. And he did not let go, he continued at it until i
stopped him, i have no doubt he wouldh have killed her, all because she would
not give him her food?, when he had his bowl full several feet away and he got
fed first? >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: 132
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"COASTIE" <coastie51.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%v_Pa.97298$Io.8400302@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hi to all!
>
> I don't write or post to many things here because the first time I did, I
> was eaten alive by some of the letters. I was looking for help and all I
got
> was dog lovers insulting me with no good suggestions. I hope this don't
> repeat I the only reason I am trying for a second time is because I am
> desperate. Here is my story,
>
> Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He
became
> my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
> day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because
he
> was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs don't
> like to be bother when they are eating and just to leave him alone when
> eating. That's what the whole family did. When he was eating nobody was
> close to him (he usually growled at us). This was only when he was eating
or
> we gave him a treat (raw hide, etc). A couple nights ago he was eating a
> treat and after he was done, my son went to say goodbye for the night and
he
> bit him in the hand. I have called the breeder and he don't know what to
do.
> I called the vet and she recommend neutering and an animal behaviorist
> (another doctor). This doctor is not only far away from me but I think
this
> is going to cost me a fortune. He has been and inside dog and sometimes we
> don't have the time to play with him. He is a beautiful animal, well taken
> care off and weighing 85 lbs. The whole family loves this dog but I think
he
> has become a hazard not only to my family but to other kids in my
> neighborhood.
>
> Does anybody have this happen to their dog? I called a trainer and she
> explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to sleep.
> This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to even
> feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my problem?
>
>
Hi,
You have a problem yes...but not one where the dog should be put down.
It does need sorting I would agree.
If your dog does this when you give him a treat simply DO NOT give him any
treats.
Just feed him lift his bowl.
Do NOT put the dog in a situation that he will bite.
Plus you have to be top dog...and not be scared.
He will use your nervousness to his advantage.
If he knows he can win with you he will.
That then puts him as top dog....being a bad thing.
You love your dog and do not want this to happen
then the best thing would be that he is not ever tested.
You took something away from him that was important just the once.
Now he thinks you will always do that.
Please think about what you do...or this dog will be placed in a situation
....that I know you do not want.
It is easy to sort.... you just have to think before you act.
If you dont have trouble with meal time...then just give him food.
No treats that way you will have a long and happy life together.:-))
I have two dogs and I would never put them in a position I was not happy
with.
Give the treats away .
Good luck.
Sure all will be ok with care.
Pat.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 20
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Sue Alexander CPDT" <sue.DeleteThis@nestnature.com>
Wow. Great post, Sue. Thanks for taking the time to check in here. I hope
you'll come by frequently. So often people get awful advice from well
meaning people, and it helps to have a pro stop in to counter it, and offer
constructive help.
Liz >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 18
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hell no, try the things that have been said, like try feeding out of your
hand take the treats away maybe give him one when you go to bed?
If you are scared of him, give him to a good home but disclose the
information on the bites.
I have a lab that will growl at my kids, if the kid don't listen he will
jump/charge at them with a open mouth. no true bites have taken place, my
daughter is 4 and he is 5 we have had him from a pup and it didn't start
until about 3 (when she knew better) now with my boy that just turn one he
could pull the hair bug him in any way my lab would just get up and walk
away.
like I said if you are scared of the dog get rid of him but not put him down
or to the local shelter that will. FIND A GOOD HOME FOR HIM
<gtvintaylor DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3569-3F142C67-302@storefull-2231.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> I think your trainer is right, you should put him to sleep. A dog that
> bits is no good to for anyone.
> >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Aug 05, 2003
Posts: 69
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
It IS possible that the dog will have to be put down, but (as I said in my
original reply to Coastie) certainly not before trying everything possible
(I hope). It's hard for us here to know really how bad it is (or isn't!). If
the OP is too frightened to work with the dog, then he should definitely be
given away to someone who can deal with him. This whole situation is a
shame. I hope the comments made here (both the gentle and harsh ones) will
keep the OP from making the same mistakes with another dog.
"bubba in italy" <becky.walters.TakeThisOut@tin.it> wrote in message
news:6oWQa.60886$qa5.1344257@news2.tin.it...
> Hell no, try the things that have been said, like try feeding out of your
> hand take the treats away maybe give him one when you go to bed?
> If you are scared of him, give him to a good home but disclose the
> information on the bites.
>
> I have a lab that will growl at my kids, if the kid don't listen he will
> jump/charge at them with a open mouth. no true bites have taken place, my
> daughter is 4 and he is 5 we have had him from a pup and it didn't start
> until about 3 (when she knew better) now with my boy that just turn one he
> could pull the hair bug him in any way my lab would just get up and walk
> away.
>
> like I said if you are scared of the dog get rid of him but not put him
down
> or to the local shelter that will. FIND A GOOD HOME FOR HIM
> <gtvintaylor.TakeThisOut@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:3569-3F142C67-302@storefull-2231.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> > I think your trainer is right, you should put him to sleep. A dog that
> > bits is no good to for anyone.
> >
>
> >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 2
|
(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 9:24 am
Post subject: Re: Labrador Agression [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hello,
there are many Answers about your Problem here, but i try to give an answer
how i feel.
Your Dog have Problems to see how is the Boss, but the Boss is your
family...ALL.
The best way is, to change the rules for the dog. Dont feed him, in the same
way at all. Give him
the food with your hand. He dont understand, that you are the the Provider
of food.
We have an Retriever an he learn from the first day that i give the command
to eat, and not the dog. He sit in the front of the food and he wait until i
say take. Its a hard way to be consequential in all things about the dog but
it works.(Thanks for my Trainer:-))
Your Dog can not learn, when you not change to act. The Dog ist the last in
the family.
All goes first in the door, and the last is the dog. Say really NO and
really LOUD for the Dog.
You make the food, your wife take it and the kids give it. But dont leave
the Kids allone with the Dog, be present or your wife. Thats a rule for all
Dogs.
Its the same like a pride of dogs. Dont be afraid of your dog, because you
are God, you are the man who can take the dog put to sleep.
Search for a good Trainer for YOU and your Dog, or buy a good book of
trainee Dogs.
Sorry but i cant give you a commendation of books, because can give it only
for german books.
I hope the best for you.
Greetings from Germany
Uwe
"COASTIE" <coastie51 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:%v_Pa.97298$Io.8400302@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Hi to all!
>
> I don't write or post to many things here because the first time I did, I
> was eaten alive by some of the letters. I was looking for help and all I
got
> was dog lovers insulting me with no good suggestions. I hope this don't
> repeat I the only reason I am trying for a second time is because I am
> desperate. Here is my story,
>
> Twenty months ago, my wife bought me a beautiful yellow Labrador. He
became
> my best buddy and for six months we were together all day every day. One
> day while he was eating a raw hide treat, I tried to take it away because
he
> was making a mess and he bit me. Some people told me that some dogs don't
> like to be bother when they are eating and just to leave him alone when
> eating. That's what the whole family did. When he was eating nobody was
> close to him (he usually growled at us). This was only when he was eating
or
> we gave him a treat (raw hide, etc). A couple nights ago he was eating a
> treat and after he was done, my son went to say goodbye for the night and
he
> bit him in the hand. I have called the breeder and he don't know what to
do.
> I called the vet and she recommend neutering and an animal behaviorist
> (another doctor). This doctor is not only far away from me but I think
this
> is going to cost me a fortune. He has been and inside dog and sometimes we
> don't have the time to play with him. He is a beautiful animal, well taken
> care off and weighing 85 lbs. The whole family loves this dog but I think
he
> has become a hazard not only to my family but to other kids in my
> neighborhood.
>
> Does anybody have this happen to their dog? I called a trainer and she
> explained to me that on the third bite, it is better to put them to sleep.
> This dog is my buddy but I am also afraid of him now. I am afraid to even
> feed him and take him out for his potty time. Any solutions to my problem?
>
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Labrador Agression |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
